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Why is working on the same position for more than 15 years not a red flag?
In what ways could someone working at a position for 15 years be negatively perceived?What exceptions are there to the 'don't give a salary number first'?Strategy for applying when there's a “Senior” and “Intermediate” position availableReturned to old employer after 5 months at a jobIs it a good or bad sign if a potential employer is willing to bend over backwards for an interview?How to interview a former superior?How to gracefully end an interview when the candidate is obviously not cut for the job?Is it reasonable to complain about the 'junior' label after entering the company with 4 years of experience?Candidate talks over me during interviewWhen to include a reference letter in an application?Interviewed for the wrong role
I'm about to interview someone who applied for the same position that I have: senior software engineer.
The candidate is 13 years older than me and has worked in the same position for more than 15 years.
I find this to be extremely fishy and I can't figure out a way to get out of this mindset that I know is not right.
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
Will the candidate influence the team in a good way? Or will the candidate seem bored and show tiredness for doing the same thing endlessly?
interviewing recruitment seniority
New contributor
|
show 17 more comments
I'm about to interview someone who applied for the same position that I have: senior software engineer.
The candidate is 13 years older than me and has worked in the same position for more than 15 years.
I find this to be extremely fishy and I can't figure out a way to get out of this mindset that I know is not right.
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
Will the candidate influence the team in a good way? Or will the candidate seem bored and show tiredness for doing the same thing endlessly?
interviewing recruitment seniority
New contributor
63
Why is it extremely fishy?
– Kozaky
5 hours ago
14
@LauriElias Or they're happy with what they're doing and have plenty of diversity in their role.
– Twyxz
4 hours ago
51
@LauriElias: “A smart person would get bored of maintaining a Spring app for a decade” — there are so many completely baseless prejudices wrapped up in that little statement.
– Paul D. Waite
4 hours ago
40
I find it amazing that some people find an individual who is not interested in climbing the corporate ladder and achieving world domination to be suspicious.
– gburton
2 hours ago
29
I would be more than happy to be checked by a doctor with 15+ years of experience on his field. Or to watch a lecture from a teacher with 15+ years of experience on his subject. Or to eat the food from a chef with 15+ years of experience on the kitchen. Why software development would be different?
– T. Sar
2 hours ago
|
show 17 more comments
I'm about to interview someone who applied for the same position that I have: senior software engineer.
The candidate is 13 years older than me and has worked in the same position for more than 15 years.
I find this to be extremely fishy and I can't figure out a way to get out of this mindset that I know is not right.
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
Will the candidate influence the team in a good way? Or will the candidate seem bored and show tiredness for doing the same thing endlessly?
interviewing recruitment seniority
New contributor
I'm about to interview someone who applied for the same position that I have: senior software engineer.
The candidate is 13 years older than me and has worked in the same position for more than 15 years.
I find this to be extremely fishy and I can't figure out a way to get out of this mindset that I know is not right.
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
Will the candidate influence the team in a good way? Or will the candidate seem bored and show tiredness for doing the same thing endlessly?
interviewing recruitment seniority
interviewing recruitment seniority
New contributor
New contributor
edited 5 hours ago
Magisch
17.6k155280
17.6k155280
New contributor
asked 6 hours ago
AnonOPAnonOP
10713
10713
New contributor
New contributor
63
Why is it extremely fishy?
– Kozaky
5 hours ago
14
@LauriElias Or they're happy with what they're doing and have plenty of diversity in their role.
– Twyxz
4 hours ago
51
@LauriElias: “A smart person would get bored of maintaining a Spring app for a decade” — there are so many completely baseless prejudices wrapped up in that little statement.
– Paul D. Waite
4 hours ago
40
I find it amazing that some people find an individual who is not interested in climbing the corporate ladder and achieving world domination to be suspicious.
– gburton
2 hours ago
29
I would be more than happy to be checked by a doctor with 15+ years of experience on his field. Or to watch a lecture from a teacher with 15+ years of experience on his subject. Or to eat the food from a chef with 15+ years of experience on the kitchen. Why software development would be different?
– T. Sar
2 hours ago
|
show 17 more comments
63
Why is it extremely fishy?
– Kozaky
5 hours ago
14
@LauriElias Or they're happy with what they're doing and have plenty of diversity in their role.
– Twyxz
4 hours ago
51
@LauriElias: “A smart person would get bored of maintaining a Spring app for a decade” — there are so many completely baseless prejudices wrapped up in that little statement.
– Paul D. Waite
4 hours ago
40
I find it amazing that some people find an individual who is not interested in climbing the corporate ladder and achieving world domination to be suspicious.
– gburton
2 hours ago
29
I would be more than happy to be checked by a doctor with 15+ years of experience on his field. Or to watch a lecture from a teacher with 15+ years of experience on his subject. Or to eat the food from a chef with 15+ years of experience on the kitchen. Why software development would be different?
– T. Sar
2 hours ago
63
63
Why is it extremely fishy?
– Kozaky
5 hours ago
Why is it extremely fishy?
– Kozaky
5 hours ago
14
14
@LauriElias Or they're happy with what they're doing and have plenty of diversity in their role.
– Twyxz
4 hours ago
@LauriElias Or they're happy with what they're doing and have plenty of diversity in their role.
– Twyxz
4 hours ago
51
51
@LauriElias: “A smart person would get bored of maintaining a Spring app for a decade” — there are so many completely baseless prejudices wrapped up in that little statement.
– Paul D. Waite
4 hours ago
@LauriElias: “A smart person would get bored of maintaining a Spring app for a decade” — there are so many completely baseless prejudices wrapped up in that little statement.
– Paul D. Waite
4 hours ago
40
40
I find it amazing that some people find an individual who is not interested in climbing the corporate ladder and achieving world domination to be suspicious.
– gburton
2 hours ago
I find it amazing that some people find an individual who is not interested in climbing the corporate ladder and achieving world domination to be suspicious.
– gburton
2 hours ago
29
29
I would be more than happy to be checked by a doctor with 15+ years of experience on his field. Or to watch a lecture from a teacher with 15+ years of experience on his subject. Or to eat the food from a chef with 15+ years of experience on the kitchen. Why software development would be different?
– T. Sar
2 hours ago
I would be more than happy to be checked by a doctor with 15+ years of experience on his field. Or to watch a lecture from a teacher with 15+ years of experience on his subject. Or to eat the food from a chef with 15+ years of experience on the kitchen. Why software development would be different?
– T. Sar
2 hours ago
|
show 17 more comments
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
How about you wait for the interview before you judge that person...
Not everyone is interested in climbing the corporate ladder.
Maybe there was no other position suited for them at the company.
At least it tells you, they are good enough to be kept around for over a decade.
how about they love what they do so much that they don't consider other positions
Higher positions require leadership and "people" skills and maybe it's just not in their nature
some people don't want to have too much responsibilities
Many are just fine with being told what to do and then carry on with their work
Maybe they needed a stable income for personal reasons without the risks new and more demanding positions bring to job security and time management
20
+1. If this candidate gets the job and you end up working with / nearby, learn as much as you can. The chances are this person knows plenty of stuff not directly related to the role.
– Justin
5 hours ago
57
+1. The next step up from Senior Software Dev would usually be a managerial position, and I know quite a couple of senior developers who have absolutely refused that and are happier and more useful to their companies right where they are.
– Eike Pierstorff
4 hours ago
24
@EikePierstorff In a (small) company I worked for the next step up was "owner". One does not become owner by merit alone.. I see zero red flags or fishiness tbh, this developer held down a job for 15 years, that's a green flag, if there is such a thing as a green flag.
– Douwe
4 hours ago
14
Also, being senior, means he has achieved the highest (or one of the highest) levels of software engineering, since senior means time and experience. It would be a red flag if he was a junior software engineer for 15 years.
– A.T.
3 hours ago
2
As @EikePierstorff said, there are engineers that are absolutely not interested in going to management and they just love coding. I've met people that have coded since the ZX Spectrum and are still coding, in games, today, without any interest for office politics, etc. Nothing fishy there.
– Thomas
2 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
So you seek someone who will do Software-engineering for you. The candidate you have at hand has a lot of experience in that area. He has achieved the highest rank possible where his main occupation still is software engineering - long ago, and he stayed with it.
So chances are:
- He really loves what he is doing.
- He is good at it and does not do all the expensive rookie mistakes.
- He does not want to get into a leadership-position and make expensive rookie mistakes there.
- He is really loyal and if treated right, will stick around your company equally long
- You won´t have to do expensive recruiting and training of a new developer in 3 years
Go to see for yourself. Try to find out especially if he is open and interested in new technologies, ideas and engineering-concepts and if he can communicate and share his knowledge with the rest of the team.
2
Being a person similar to what OP is asking about, I agree with your points. There are, however, things to look out for with such persons as well: the candidate might have a problem with change. Some people react poorly to changing working conditions and this may be a reason he stuck for so long. So be sure to look out for indicators whether this is the case. Also, he might have been working with "old" technology for a long time and may be missing skills necessary for the position in question. Luckily, people with so much experience often learn the missing pieces faster.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
2
BTW, I did try to get into management and found that I suck at that. It made me unhappy and I was poor in that position. So I happily remain a senior developer and continue doing a job that is fun to me and where I think I'm actually valuable.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
2
@DarkDust: I totally agree with you. That´s why I wrote the Try to find out ... section. Also, if you employ someone like this, see that he don´t starts to build himself the "ivory tower" i.e. making himself indispensable.
– Daniel
2 hours ago
1
@DarkDust: Another warning, the candidate may just not be that good. I've met my share of "senior" software developers who had simply repeated their junior years over and over, and never demonstrated any kind of seniority except graying at the temples and teenage kids (which doesn't mean they were not diligent in the tasks assigned to them).
– Matthieu M.
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The most important question, in my opinion, is: Can you afford to ignore applicants?
For development jobs, at least here in Germany, there are so few applicants, that I interview everyone who is not obviously unqualified. I cannot afford to skip over someone based on too little information.
For other jobs, when you have a hundred applications for one opening, it makes sense to filter more strongly, based on criteria you ideally have defined it advance.
Yes, what you describe is uncommon, but it's not necessarily bad. In fact, thirty years ago, profiles like this were the norm. At the very least, you have someone who is easily motivated and loyal.
New contributor
add a comment |
Why would it be a red flag? Senior Software Engineer
or Software Engineer III
could be highest position in his company that still was able to code, so because of that, he maybe didnt want to become a manager or whoever else.
Not every company creates fancy positions like Senior Ninja Developer
or Wizard JS Dev
just in order to give promotions
New contributor
add a comment |
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
It depends on the company's culture but for some, it is a red flag.
The company I work in, a large one, considers that a candidate like this is not someone to invest in and will call contractors for profiles like this, preferring recruiting people able to "climb the ladder".
For some other companies, it is a type of profile they seek in order to have experts / senior developers.
TLDR: Ask your management to clarify the profiles they want you to find and if they consider it as a red flag.
Will the candidate influence the team in a good way? Or will the candidate seem bored and show tiredness for doing the same thing endlessly?
You don't have enough informations to answer this. See the candidate, interview him. Only knowing he has been in the same job for years is not enough.
How does that answer the question?
– Daniel
5 hours ago
2
@Daniel It answers the title and theWhy is this OK and not a red flag?
question. It is OK only if company's recruiting policy allows it to be OK.
– LP154
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Consider that "the same position" doesn't necessarily mean the same team, tech stack, project or even the same office. I personally work with a different client every 6-12 months, and I've learned a lot of new technologies, gotten significant raises, moved to a different branch, all without my job title ever changing. That might not be the norm, but it happens. Ask the candidate about some war stories, they might surprise you.
Some companies offer job security and new toys. At my last client (key player in a very lucrative segment) all but one or two of my colleagues had been at the company for 10+ years. Yes, there were a handful that disliked having to learn new tech, but they were a minority.
They might have been very invested in the job or the company. Could be a project they championed, improvements to the workflow they made over time, or perhaps the company was a successful startup?
add a comment |
All you can infer from this information is either:
The developer has reached their comfort zone in capability, and is unwilling to take on aditional responsabilities (people management, project management, etc) as mandated by their current employer's structure.
The developer has some specific weakness which limits their progression in the above structure (e.g. inability to work well with non-technical, non-expert staff).
You also know they have held a position for an extended period of time, so you can be reasonably confident in identifying their current potential.
Now, you ask about how this will affect your team. This depends on if your team are all expected to move on to be managers in a few years, if you have a high turnover, how diverse the age and experience range currently is, if you feel secure in managing your team - but if you're genuinely recruiting for the role you have matched this candidate too, you might have a very good opportunity. There is no hint of a red flag compared with any other potential candiate based on this information.
On the other hand, 15 years experience with 20 different roles does start to look like a candidate who still hasn't found something that they feel they can do well.
No, you cannot reasonably infer either of those things.
– Kevin
40 mins ago
I didn't say you should, just that the data supports nothing else.
– Sean Houlihane
39 mins ago
The data doesn't support your assumptions either. There are myriad other reasons why an employee may stay that long in a position. The company may have offered great benefits beyond pay that no other company had been able to match. The person may have simply really enjoyed his job and valued that over advancement. They may have simply been of the old school mindset that you don't change jobs every few years. They may have a medical condition that caused them to stay put, either for work environment or insurance reasons.
– Kevin
29 mins ago
add a comment |
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7 Answers
7
active
oldest
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7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
How about you wait for the interview before you judge that person...
Not everyone is interested in climbing the corporate ladder.
Maybe there was no other position suited for them at the company.
At least it tells you, they are good enough to be kept around for over a decade.
how about they love what they do so much that they don't consider other positions
Higher positions require leadership and "people" skills and maybe it's just not in their nature
some people don't want to have too much responsibilities
Many are just fine with being told what to do and then carry on with their work
Maybe they needed a stable income for personal reasons without the risks new and more demanding positions bring to job security and time management
20
+1. If this candidate gets the job and you end up working with / nearby, learn as much as you can. The chances are this person knows plenty of stuff not directly related to the role.
– Justin
5 hours ago
57
+1. The next step up from Senior Software Dev would usually be a managerial position, and I know quite a couple of senior developers who have absolutely refused that and are happier and more useful to their companies right where they are.
– Eike Pierstorff
4 hours ago
24
@EikePierstorff In a (small) company I worked for the next step up was "owner". One does not become owner by merit alone.. I see zero red flags or fishiness tbh, this developer held down a job for 15 years, that's a green flag, if there is such a thing as a green flag.
– Douwe
4 hours ago
14
Also, being senior, means he has achieved the highest (or one of the highest) levels of software engineering, since senior means time and experience. It would be a red flag if he was a junior software engineer for 15 years.
– A.T.
3 hours ago
2
As @EikePierstorff said, there are engineers that are absolutely not interested in going to management and they just love coding. I've met people that have coded since the ZX Spectrum and are still coding, in games, today, without any interest for office politics, etc. Nothing fishy there.
– Thomas
2 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
How about you wait for the interview before you judge that person...
Not everyone is interested in climbing the corporate ladder.
Maybe there was no other position suited for them at the company.
At least it tells you, they are good enough to be kept around for over a decade.
how about they love what they do so much that they don't consider other positions
Higher positions require leadership and "people" skills and maybe it's just not in their nature
some people don't want to have too much responsibilities
Many are just fine with being told what to do and then carry on with their work
Maybe they needed a stable income for personal reasons without the risks new and more demanding positions bring to job security and time management
20
+1. If this candidate gets the job and you end up working with / nearby, learn as much as you can. The chances are this person knows plenty of stuff not directly related to the role.
– Justin
5 hours ago
57
+1. The next step up from Senior Software Dev would usually be a managerial position, and I know quite a couple of senior developers who have absolutely refused that and are happier and more useful to their companies right where they are.
– Eike Pierstorff
4 hours ago
24
@EikePierstorff In a (small) company I worked for the next step up was "owner". One does not become owner by merit alone.. I see zero red flags or fishiness tbh, this developer held down a job for 15 years, that's a green flag, if there is such a thing as a green flag.
– Douwe
4 hours ago
14
Also, being senior, means he has achieved the highest (or one of the highest) levels of software engineering, since senior means time and experience. It would be a red flag if he was a junior software engineer for 15 years.
– A.T.
3 hours ago
2
As @EikePierstorff said, there are engineers that are absolutely not interested in going to management and they just love coding. I've met people that have coded since the ZX Spectrum and are still coding, in games, today, without any interest for office politics, etc. Nothing fishy there.
– Thomas
2 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
How about you wait for the interview before you judge that person...
Not everyone is interested in climbing the corporate ladder.
Maybe there was no other position suited for them at the company.
At least it tells you, they are good enough to be kept around for over a decade.
how about they love what they do so much that they don't consider other positions
Higher positions require leadership and "people" skills and maybe it's just not in their nature
some people don't want to have too much responsibilities
Many are just fine with being told what to do and then carry on with their work
Maybe they needed a stable income for personal reasons without the risks new and more demanding positions bring to job security and time management
How about you wait for the interview before you judge that person...
Not everyone is interested in climbing the corporate ladder.
Maybe there was no other position suited for them at the company.
At least it tells you, they are good enough to be kept around for over a decade.
how about they love what they do so much that they don't consider other positions
Higher positions require leadership and "people" skills and maybe it's just not in their nature
some people don't want to have too much responsibilities
Many are just fine with being told what to do and then carry on with their work
Maybe they needed a stable income for personal reasons without the risks new and more demanding positions bring to job security and time management
edited 5 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
DigitalBlade969DigitalBlade969
8,70521034
8,70521034
20
+1. If this candidate gets the job and you end up working with / nearby, learn as much as you can. The chances are this person knows plenty of stuff not directly related to the role.
– Justin
5 hours ago
57
+1. The next step up from Senior Software Dev would usually be a managerial position, and I know quite a couple of senior developers who have absolutely refused that and are happier and more useful to their companies right where they are.
– Eike Pierstorff
4 hours ago
24
@EikePierstorff In a (small) company I worked for the next step up was "owner". One does not become owner by merit alone.. I see zero red flags or fishiness tbh, this developer held down a job for 15 years, that's a green flag, if there is such a thing as a green flag.
– Douwe
4 hours ago
14
Also, being senior, means he has achieved the highest (or one of the highest) levels of software engineering, since senior means time and experience. It would be a red flag if he was a junior software engineer for 15 years.
– A.T.
3 hours ago
2
As @EikePierstorff said, there are engineers that are absolutely not interested in going to management and they just love coding. I've met people that have coded since the ZX Spectrum and are still coding, in games, today, without any interest for office politics, etc. Nothing fishy there.
– Thomas
2 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
20
+1. If this candidate gets the job and you end up working with / nearby, learn as much as you can. The chances are this person knows plenty of stuff not directly related to the role.
– Justin
5 hours ago
57
+1. The next step up from Senior Software Dev would usually be a managerial position, and I know quite a couple of senior developers who have absolutely refused that and are happier and more useful to their companies right where they are.
– Eike Pierstorff
4 hours ago
24
@EikePierstorff In a (small) company I worked for the next step up was "owner". One does not become owner by merit alone.. I see zero red flags or fishiness tbh, this developer held down a job for 15 years, that's a green flag, if there is such a thing as a green flag.
– Douwe
4 hours ago
14
Also, being senior, means he has achieved the highest (or one of the highest) levels of software engineering, since senior means time and experience. It would be a red flag if he was a junior software engineer for 15 years.
– A.T.
3 hours ago
2
As @EikePierstorff said, there are engineers that are absolutely not interested in going to management and they just love coding. I've met people that have coded since the ZX Spectrum and are still coding, in games, today, without any interest for office politics, etc. Nothing fishy there.
– Thomas
2 hours ago
20
20
+1. If this candidate gets the job and you end up working with / nearby, learn as much as you can. The chances are this person knows plenty of stuff not directly related to the role.
– Justin
5 hours ago
+1. If this candidate gets the job and you end up working with / nearby, learn as much as you can. The chances are this person knows plenty of stuff not directly related to the role.
– Justin
5 hours ago
57
57
+1. The next step up from Senior Software Dev would usually be a managerial position, and I know quite a couple of senior developers who have absolutely refused that and are happier and more useful to their companies right where they are.
– Eike Pierstorff
4 hours ago
+1. The next step up from Senior Software Dev would usually be a managerial position, and I know quite a couple of senior developers who have absolutely refused that and are happier and more useful to their companies right where they are.
– Eike Pierstorff
4 hours ago
24
24
@EikePierstorff In a (small) company I worked for the next step up was "owner". One does not become owner by merit alone.. I see zero red flags or fishiness tbh, this developer held down a job for 15 years, that's a green flag, if there is such a thing as a green flag.
– Douwe
4 hours ago
@EikePierstorff In a (small) company I worked for the next step up was "owner". One does not become owner by merit alone.. I see zero red flags or fishiness tbh, this developer held down a job for 15 years, that's a green flag, if there is such a thing as a green flag.
– Douwe
4 hours ago
14
14
Also, being senior, means he has achieved the highest (or one of the highest) levels of software engineering, since senior means time and experience. It would be a red flag if he was a junior software engineer for 15 years.
– A.T.
3 hours ago
Also, being senior, means he has achieved the highest (or one of the highest) levels of software engineering, since senior means time and experience. It would be a red flag if he was a junior software engineer for 15 years.
– A.T.
3 hours ago
2
2
As @EikePierstorff said, there are engineers that are absolutely not interested in going to management and they just love coding. I've met people that have coded since the ZX Spectrum and are still coding, in games, today, without any interest for office politics, etc. Nothing fishy there.
– Thomas
2 hours ago
As @EikePierstorff said, there are engineers that are absolutely not interested in going to management and they just love coding. I've met people that have coded since the ZX Spectrum and are still coding, in games, today, without any interest for office politics, etc. Nothing fishy there.
– Thomas
2 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
So you seek someone who will do Software-engineering for you. The candidate you have at hand has a lot of experience in that area. He has achieved the highest rank possible where his main occupation still is software engineering - long ago, and he stayed with it.
So chances are:
- He really loves what he is doing.
- He is good at it and does not do all the expensive rookie mistakes.
- He does not want to get into a leadership-position and make expensive rookie mistakes there.
- He is really loyal and if treated right, will stick around your company equally long
- You won´t have to do expensive recruiting and training of a new developer in 3 years
Go to see for yourself. Try to find out especially if he is open and interested in new technologies, ideas and engineering-concepts and if he can communicate and share his knowledge with the rest of the team.
2
Being a person similar to what OP is asking about, I agree with your points. There are, however, things to look out for with such persons as well: the candidate might have a problem with change. Some people react poorly to changing working conditions and this may be a reason he stuck for so long. So be sure to look out for indicators whether this is the case. Also, he might have been working with "old" technology for a long time and may be missing skills necessary for the position in question. Luckily, people with so much experience often learn the missing pieces faster.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
2
BTW, I did try to get into management and found that I suck at that. It made me unhappy and I was poor in that position. So I happily remain a senior developer and continue doing a job that is fun to me and where I think I'm actually valuable.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
2
@DarkDust: I totally agree with you. That´s why I wrote the Try to find out ... section. Also, if you employ someone like this, see that he don´t starts to build himself the "ivory tower" i.e. making himself indispensable.
– Daniel
2 hours ago
1
@DarkDust: Another warning, the candidate may just not be that good. I've met my share of "senior" software developers who had simply repeated their junior years over and over, and never demonstrated any kind of seniority except graying at the temples and teenage kids (which doesn't mean they were not diligent in the tasks assigned to them).
– Matthieu M.
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
So you seek someone who will do Software-engineering for you. The candidate you have at hand has a lot of experience in that area. He has achieved the highest rank possible where his main occupation still is software engineering - long ago, and he stayed with it.
So chances are:
- He really loves what he is doing.
- He is good at it and does not do all the expensive rookie mistakes.
- He does not want to get into a leadership-position and make expensive rookie mistakes there.
- He is really loyal and if treated right, will stick around your company equally long
- You won´t have to do expensive recruiting and training of a new developer in 3 years
Go to see for yourself. Try to find out especially if he is open and interested in new technologies, ideas and engineering-concepts and if he can communicate and share his knowledge with the rest of the team.
2
Being a person similar to what OP is asking about, I agree with your points. There are, however, things to look out for with such persons as well: the candidate might have a problem with change. Some people react poorly to changing working conditions and this may be a reason he stuck for so long. So be sure to look out for indicators whether this is the case. Also, he might have been working with "old" technology for a long time and may be missing skills necessary for the position in question. Luckily, people with so much experience often learn the missing pieces faster.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
2
BTW, I did try to get into management and found that I suck at that. It made me unhappy and I was poor in that position. So I happily remain a senior developer and continue doing a job that is fun to me and where I think I'm actually valuable.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
2
@DarkDust: I totally agree with you. That´s why I wrote the Try to find out ... section. Also, if you employ someone like this, see that he don´t starts to build himself the "ivory tower" i.e. making himself indispensable.
– Daniel
2 hours ago
1
@DarkDust: Another warning, the candidate may just not be that good. I've met my share of "senior" software developers who had simply repeated their junior years over and over, and never demonstrated any kind of seniority except graying at the temples and teenage kids (which doesn't mean they were not diligent in the tasks assigned to them).
– Matthieu M.
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
So you seek someone who will do Software-engineering for you. The candidate you have at hand has a lot of experience in that area. He has achieved the highest rank possible where his main occupation still is software engineering - long ago, and he stayed with it.
So chances are:
- He really loves what he is doing.
- He is good at it and does not do all the expensive rookie mistakes.
- He does not want to get into a leadership-position and make expensive rookie mistakes there.
- He is really loyal and if treated right, will stick around your company equally long
- You won´t have to do expensive recruiting and training of a new developer in 3 years
Go to see for yourself. Try to find out especially if he is open and interested in new technologies, ideas and engineering-concepts and if he can communicate and share his knowledge with the rest of the team.
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
So you seek someone who will do Software-engineering for you. The candidate you have at hand has a lot of experience in that area. He has achieved the highest rank possible where his main occupation still is software engineering - long ago, and he stayed with it.
So chances are:
- He really loves what he is doing.
- He is good at it and does not do all the expensive rookie mistakes.
- He does not want to get into a leadership-position and make expensive rookie mistakes there.
- He is really loyal and if treated right, will stick around your company equally long
- You won´t have to do expensive recruiting and training of a new developer in 3 years
Go to see for yourself. Try to find out especially if he is open and interested in new technologies, ideas and engineering-concepts and if he can communicate and share his knowledge with the rest of the team.
answered 4 hours ago
DanielDaniel
16.3k93663
16.3k93663
2
Being a person similar to what OP is asking about, I agree with your points. There are, however, things to look out for with such persons as well: the candidate might have a problem with change. Some people react poorly to changing working conditions and this may be a reason he stuck for so long. So be sure to look out for indicators whether this is the case. Also, he might have been working with "old" technology for a long time and may be missing skills necessary for the position in question. Luckily, people with so much experience often learn the missing pieces faster.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
2
BTW, I did try to get into management and found that I suck at that. It made me unhappy and I was poor in that position. So I happily remain a senior developer and continue doing a job that is fun to me and where I think I'm actually valuable.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
2
@DarkDust: I totally agree with you. That´s why I wrote the Try to find out ... section. Also, if you employ someone like this, see that he don´t starts to build himself the "ivory tower" i.e. making himself indispensable.
– Daniel
2 hours ago
1
@DarkDust: Another warning, the candidate may just not be that good. I've met my share of "senior" software developers who had simply repeated their junior years over and over, and never demonstrated any kind of seniority except graying at the temples and teenage kids (which doesn't mean they were not diligent in the tasks assigned to them).
– Matthieu M.
1 hour ago
add a comment |
2
Being a person similar to what OP is asking about, I agree with your points. There are, however, things to look out for with such persons as well: the candidate might have a problem with change. Some people react poorly to changing working conditions and this may be a reason he stuck for so long. So be sure to look out for indicators whether this is the case. Also, he might have been working with "old" technology for a long time and may be missing skills necessary for the position in question. Luckily, people with so much experience often learn the missing pieces faster.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
2
BTW, I did try to get into management and found that I suck at that. It made me unhappy and I was poor in that position. So I happily remain a senior developer and continue doing a job that is fun to me and where I think I'm actually valuable.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
2
@DarkDust: I totally agree with you. That´s why I wrote the Try to find out ... section. Also, if you employ someone like this, see that he don´t starts to build himself the "ivory tower" i.e. making himself indispensable.
– Daniel
2 hours ago
1
@DarkDust: Another warning, the candidate may just not be that good. I've met my share of "senior" software developers who had simply repeated their junior years over and over, and never demonstrated any kind of seniority except graying at the temples and teenage kids (which doesn't mean they were not diligent in the tasks assigned to them).
– Matthieu M.
1 hour ago
2
2
Being a person similar to what OP is asking about, I agree with your points. There are, however, things to look out for with such persons as well: the candidate might have a problem with change. Some people react poorly to changing working conditions and this may be a reason he stuck for so long. So be sure to look out for indicators whether this is the case. Also, he might have been working with "old" technology for a long time and may be missing skills necessary for the position in question. Luckily, people with so much experience often learn the missing pieces faster.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
Being a person similar to what OP is asking about, I agree with your points. There are, however, things to look out for with such persons as well: the candidate might have a problem with change. Some people react poorly to changing working conditions and this may be a reason he stuck for so long. So be sure to look out for indicators whether this is the case. Also, he might have been working with "old" technology for a long time and may be missing skills necessary for the position in question. Luckily, people with so much experience often learn the missing pieces faster.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
2
2
BTW, I did try to get into management and found that I suck at that. It made me unhappy and I was poor in that position. So I happily remain a senior developer and continue doing a job that is fun to me and where I think I'm actually valuable.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
BTW, I did try to get into management and found that I suck at that. It made me unhappy and I was poor in that position. So I happily remain a senior developer and continue doing a job that is fun to me and where I think I'm actually valuable.
– DarkDust
2 hours ago
2
2
@DarkDust: I totally agree with you. That´s why I wrote the Try to find out ... section. Also, if you employ someone like this, see that he don´t starts to build himself the "ivory tower" i.e. making himself indispensable.
– Daniel
2 hours ago
@DarkDust: I totally agree with you. That´s why I wrote the Try to find out ... section. Also, if you employ someone like this, see that he don´t starts to build himself the "ivory tower" i.e. making himself indispensable.
– Daniel
2 hours ago
1
1
@DarkDust: Another warning, the candidate may just not be that good. I've met my share of "senior" software developers who had simply repeated their junior years over and over, and never demonstrated any kind of seniority except graying at the temples and teenage kids (which doesn't mean they were not diligent in the tasks assigned to them).
– Matthieu M.
1 hour ago
@DarkDust: Another warning, the candidate may just not be that good. I've met my share of "senior" software developers who had simply repeated their junior years over and over, and never demonstrated any kind of seniority except graying at the temples and teenage kids (which doesn't mean they were not diligent in the tasks assigned to them).
– Matthieu M.
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The most important question, in my opinion, is: Can you afford to ignore applicants?
For development jobs, at least here in Germany, there are so few applicants, that I interview everyone who is not obviously unqualified. I cannot afford to skip over someone based on too little information.
For other jobs, when you have a hundred applications for one opening, it makes sense to filter more strongly, based on criteria you ideally have defined it advance.
Yes, what you describe is uncommon, but it's not necessarily bad. In fact, thirty years ago, profiles like this were the norm. At the very least, you have someone who is easily motivated and loyal.
New contributor
add a comment |
The most important question, in my opinion, is: Can you afford to ignore applicants?
For development jobs, at least here in Germany, there are so few applicants, that I interview everyone who is not obviously unqualified. I cannot afford to skip over someone based on too little information.
For other jobs, when you have a hundred applications for one opening, it makes sense to filter more strongly, based on criteria you ideally have defined it advance.
Yes, what you describe is uncommon, but it's not necessarily bad. In fact, thirty years ago, profiles like this were the norm. At the very least, you have someone who is easily motivated and loyal.
New contributor
add a comment |
The most important question, in my opinion, is: Can you afford to ignore applicants?
For development jobs, at least here in Germany, there are so few applicants, that I interview everyone who is not obviously unqualified. I cannot afford to skip over someone based on too little information.
For other jobs, when you have a hundred applications for one opening, it makes sense to filter more strongly, based on criteria you ideally have defined it advance.
Yes, what you describe is uncommon, but it's not necessarily bad. In fact, thirty years ago, profiles like this were the norm. At the very least, you have someone who is easily motivated and loyal.
New contributor
The most important question, in my opinion, is: Can you afford to ignore applicants?
For development jobs, at least here in Germany, there are so few applicants, that I interview everyone who is not obviously unqualified. I cannot afford to skip over someone based on too little information.
For other jobs, when you have a hundred applications for one opening, it makes sense to filter more strongly, based on criteria you ideally have defined it advance.
Yes, what you describe is uncommon, but it's not necessarily bad. In fact, thirty years ago, profiles like this were the norm. At the very least, you have someone who is easily motivated and loyal.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 4 hours ago
Jörg NeulistJörg Neulist
911
911
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
Why would it be a red flag? Senior Software Engineer
or Software Engineer III
could be highest position in his company that still was able to code, so because of that, he maybe didnt want to become a manager or whoever else.
Not every company creates fancy positions like Senior Ninja Developer
or Wizard JS Dev
just in order to give promotions
New contributor
add a comment |
Why would it be a red flag? Senior Software Engineer
or Software Engineer III
could be highest position in his company that still was able to code, so because of that, he maybe didnt want to become a manager or whoever else.
Not every company creates fancy positions like Senior Ninja Developer
or Wizard JS Dev
just in order to give promotions
New contributor
add a comment |
Why would it be a red flag? Senior Software Engineer
or Software Engineer III
could be highest position in his company that still was able to code, so because of that, he maybe didnt want to become a manager or whoever else.
Not every company creates fancy positions like Senior Ninja Developer
or Wizard JS Dev
just in order to give promotions
New contributor
Why would it be a red flag? Senior Software Engineer
or Software Engineer III
could be highest position in his company that still was able to code, so because of that, he maybe didnt want to become a manager or whoever else.
Not every company creates fancy positions like Senior Ninja Developer
or Wizard JS Dev
just in order to give promotions
New contributor
New contributor
answered 3 hours ago
JoeltyJoelty
811
811
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
It depends on the company's culture but for some, it is a red flag.
The company I work in, a large one, considers that a candidate like this is not someone to invest in and will call contractors for profiles like this, preferring recruiting people able to "climb the ladder".
For some other companies, it is a type of profile they seek in order to have experts / senior developers.
TLDR: Ask your management to clarify the profiles they want you to find and if they consider it as a red flag.
Will the candidate influence the team in a good way? Or will the candidate seem bored and show tiredness for doing the same thing endlessly?
You don't have enough informations to answer this. See the candidate, interview him. Only knowing he has been in the same job for years is not enough.
How does that answer the question?
– Daniel
5 hours ago
2
@Daniel It answers the title and theWhy is this OK and not a red flag?
question. It is OK only if company's recruiting policy allows it to be OK.
– LP154
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
It depends on the company's culture but for some, it is a red flag.
The company I work in, a large one, considers that a candidate like this is not someone to invest in and will call contractors for profiles like this, preferring recruiting people able to "climb the ladder".
For some other companies, it is a type of profile they seek in order to have experts / senior developers.
TLDR: Ask your management to clarify the profiles they want you to find and if they consider it as a red flag.
Will the candidate influence the team in a good way? Or will the candidate seem bored and show tiredness for doing the same thing endlessly?
You don't have enough informations to answer this. See the candidate, interview him. Only knowing he has been in the same job for years is not enough.
How does that answer the question?
– Daniel
5 hours ago
2
@Daniel It answers the title and theWhy is this OK and not a red flag?
question. It is OK only if company's recruiting policy allows it to be OK.
– LP154
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
It depends on the company's culture but for some, it is a red flag.
The company I work in, a large one, considers that a candidate like this is not someone to invest in and will call contractors for profiles like this, preferring recruiting people able to "climb the ladder".
For some other companies, it is a type of profile they seek in order to have experts / senior developers.
TLDR: Ask your management to clarify the profiles they want you to find and if they consider it as a red flag.
Will the candidate influence the team in a good way? Or will the candidate seem bored and show tiredness for doing the same thing endlessly?
You don't have enough informations to answer this. See the candidate, interview him. Only knowing he has been in the same job for years is not enough.
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
It depends on the company's culture but for some, it is a red flag.
The company I work in, a large one, considers that a candidate like this is not someone to invest in and will call contractors for profiles like this, preferring recruiting people able to "climb the ladder".
For some other companies, it is a type of profile they seek in order to have experts / senior developers.
TLDR: Ask your management to clarify the profiles they want you to find and if they consider it as a red flag.
Will the candidate influence the team in a good way? Or will the candidate seem bored and show tiredness for doing the same thing endlessly?
You don't have enough informations to answer this. See the candidate, interview him. Only knowing he has been in the same job for years is not enough.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
LP154LP154
2,966921
2,966921
How does that answer the question?
– Daniel
5 hours ago
2
@Daniel It answers the title and theWhy is this OK and not a red flag?
question. It is OK only if company's recruiting policy allows it to be OK.
– LP154
5 hours ago
add a comment |
How does that answer the question?
– Daniel
5 hours ago
2
@Daniel It answers the title and theWhy is this OK and not a red flag?
question. It is OK only if company's recruiting policy allows it to be OK.
– LP154
5 hours ago
How does that answer the question?
– Daniel
5 hours ago
How does that answer the question?
– Daniel
5 hours ago
2
2
@Daniel It answers the title and the
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
question. It is OK only if company's recruiting policy allows it to be OK.– LP154
5 hours ago
@Daniel It answers the title and the
Why is this OK and not a red flag?
question. It is OK only if company's recruiting policy allows it to be OK.– LP154
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Consider that "the same position" doesn't necessarily mean the same team, tech stack, project or even the same office. I personally work with a different client every 6-12 months, and I've learned a lot of new technologies, gotten significant raises, moved to a different branch, all without my job title ever changing. That might not be the norm, but it happens. Ask the candidate about some war stories, they might surprise you.
Some companies offer job security and new toys. At my last client (key player in a very lucrative segment) all but one or two of my colleagues had been at the company for 10+ years. Yes, there were a handful that disliked having to learn new tech, but they were a minority.
They might have been very invested in the job or the company. Could be a project they championed, improvements to the workflow they made over time, or perhaps the company was a successful startup?
add a comment |
Consider that "the same position" doesn't necessarily mean the same team, tech stack, project or even the same office. I personally work with a different client every 6-12 months, and I've learned a lot of new technologies, gotten significant raises, moved to a different branch, all without my job title ever changing. That might not be the norm, but it happens. Ask the candidate about some war stories, they might surprise you.
Some companies offer job security and new toys. At my last client (key player in a very lucrative segment) all but one or two of my colleagues had been at the company for 10+ years. Yes, there were a handful that disliked having to learn new tech, but they were a minority.
They might have been very invested in the job or the company. Could be a project they championed, improvements to the workflow they made over time, or perhaps the company was a successful startup?
add a comment |
Consider that "the same position" doesn't necessarily mean the same team, tech stack, project or even the same office. I personally work with a different client every 6-12 months, and I've learned a lot of new technologies, gotten significant raises, moved to a different branch, all without my job title ever changing. That might not be the norm, but it happens. Ask the candidate about some war stories, they might surprise you.
Some companies offer job security and new toys. At my last client (key player in a very lucrative segment) all but one or two of my colleagues had been at the company for 10+ years. Yes, there were a handful that disliked having to learn new tech, but they were a minority.
They might have been very invested in the job or the company. Could be a project they championed, improvements to the workflow they made over time, or perhaps the company was a successful startup?
Consider that "the same position" doesn't necessarily mean the same team, tech stack, project or even the same office. I personally work with a different client every 6-12 months, and I've learned a lot of new technologies, gotten significant raises, moved to a different branch, all without my job title ever changing. That might not be the norm, but it happens. Ask the candidate about some war stories, they might surprise you.
Some companies offer job security and new toys. At my last client (key player in a very lucrative segment) all but one or two of my colleagues had been at the company for 10+ years. Yes, there were a handful that disliked having to learn new tech, but they were a minority.
They might have been very invested in the job or the company. Could be a project they championed, improvements to the workflow they made over time, or perhaps the company was a successful startup?
answered 1 hour ago
Ruther RendommeleighRuther Rendommeleigh
27226
27226
add a comment |
add a comment |
All you can infer from this information is either:
The developer has reached their comfort zone in capability, and is unwilling to take on aditional responsabilities (people management, project management, etc) as mandated by their current employer's structure.
The developer has some specific weakness which limits their progression in the above structure (e.g. inability to work well with non-technical, non-expert staff).
You also know they have held a position for an extended period of time, so you can be reasonably confident in identifying their current potential.
Now, you ask about how this will affect your team. This depends on if your team are all expected to move on to be managers in a few years, if you have a high turnover, how diverse the age and experience range currently is, if you feel secure in managing your team - but if you're genuinely recruiting for the role you have matched this candidate too, you might have a very good opportunity. There is no hint of a red flag compared with any other potential candiate based on this information.
On the other hand, 15 years experience with 20 different roles does start to look like a candidate who still hasn't found something that they feel they can do well.
No, you cannot reasonably infer either of those things.
– Kevin
40 mins ago
I didn't say you should, just that the data supports nothing else.
– Sean Houlihane
39 mins ago
The data doesn't support your assumptions either. There are myriad other reasons why an employee may stay that long in a position. The company may have offered great benefits beyond pay that no other company had been able to match. The person may have simply really enjoyed his job and valued that over advancement. They may have simply been of the old school mindset that you don't change jobs every few years. They may have a medical condition that caused them to stay put, either for work environment or insurance reasons.
– Kevin
29 mins ago
add a comment |
All you can infer from this information is either:
The developer has reached their comfort zone in capability, and is unwilling to take on aditional responsabilities (people management, project management, etc) as mandated by their current employer's structure.
The developer has some specific weakness which limits their progression in the above structure (e.g. inability to work well with non-technical, non-expert staff).
You also know they have held a position for an extended period of time, so you can be reasonably confident in identifying their current potential.
Now, you ask about how this will affect your team. This depends on if your team are all expected to move on to be managers in a few years, if you have a high turnover, how diverse the age and experience range currently is, if you feel secure in managing your team - but if you're genuinely recruiting for the role you have matched this candidate too, you might have a very good opportunity. There is no hint of a red flag compared with any other potential candiate based on this information.
On the other hand, 15 years experience with 20 different roles does start to look like a candidate who still hasn't found something that they feel they can do well.
No, you cannot reasonably infer either of those things.
– Kevin
40 mins ago
I didn't say you should, just that the data supports nothing else.
– Sean Houlihane
39 mins ago
The data doesn't support your assumptions either. There are myriad other reasons why an employee may stay that long in a position. The company may have offered great benefits beyond pay that no other company had been able to match. The person may have simply really enjoyed his job and valued that over advancement. They may have simply been of the old school mindset that you don't change jobs every few years. They may have a medical condition that caused them to stay put, either for work environment or insurance reasons.
– Kevin
29 mins ago
add a comment |
All you can infer from this information is either:
The developer has reached their comfort zone in capability, and is unwilling to take on aditional responsabilities (people management, project management, etc) as mandated by their current employer's structure.
The developer has some specific weakness which limits their progression in the above structure (e.g. inability to work well with non-technical, non-expert staff).
You also know they have held a position for an extended period of time, so you can be reasonably confident in identifying their current potential.
Now, you ask about how this will affect your team. This depends on if your team are all expected to move on to be managers in a few years, if you have a high turnover, how diverse the age and experience range currently is, if you feel secure in managing your team - but if you're genuinely recruiting for the role you have matched this candidate too, you might have a very good opportunity. There is no hint of a red flag compared with any other potential candiate based on this information.
On the other hand, 15 years experience with 20 different roles does start to look like a candidate who still hasn't found something that they feel they can do well.
All you can infer from this information is either:
The developer has reached their comfort zone in capability, and is unwilling to take on aditional responsabilities (people management, project management, etc) as mandated by their current employer's structure.
The developer has some specific weakness which limits their progression in the above structure (e.g. inability to work well with non-technical, non-expert staff).
You also know they have held a position for an extended period of time, so you can be reasonably confident in identifying their current potential.
Now, you ask about how this will affect your team. This depends on if your team are all expected to move on to be managers in a few years, if you have a high turnover, how diverse the age and experience range currently is, if you feel secure in managing your team - but if you're genuinely recruiting for the role you have matched this candidate too, you might have a very good opportunity. There is no hint of a red flag compared with any other potential candiate based on this information.
On the other hand, 15 years experience with 20 different roles does start to look like a candidate who still hasn't found something that they feel they can do well.
answered 1 hour ago
Sean HoulihaneSean Houlihane
869513
869513
No, you cannot reasonably infer either of those things.
– Kevin
40 mins ago
I didn't say you should, just that the data supports nothing else.
– Sean Houlihane
39 mins ago
The data doesn't support your assumptions either. There are myriad other reasons why an employee may stay that long in a position. The company may have offered great benefits beyond pay that no other company had been able to match. The person may have simply really enjoyed his job and valued that over advancement. They may have simply been of the old school mindset that you don't change jobs every few years. They may have a medical condition that caused them to stay put, either for work environment or insurance reasons.
– Kevin
29 mins ago
add a comment |
No, you cannot reasonably infer either of those things.
– Kevin
40 mins ago
I didn't say you should, just that the data supports nothing else.
– Sean Houlihane
39 mins ago
The data doesn't support your assumptions either. There are myriad other reasons why an employee may stay that long in a position. The company may have offered great benefits beyond pay that no other company had been able to match. The person may have simply really enjoyed his job and valued that over advancement. They may have simply been of the old school mindset that you don't change jobs every few years. They may have a medical condition that caused them to stay put, either for work environment or insurance reasons.
– Kevin
29 mins ago
No, you cannot reasonably infer either of those things.
– Kevin
40 mins ago
No, you cannot reasonably infer either of those things.
– Kevin
40 mins ago
I didn't say you should, just that the data supports nothing else.
– Sean Houlihane
39 mins ago
I didn't say you should, just that the data supports nothing else.
– Sean Houlihane
39 mins ago
The data doesn't support your assumptions either. There are myriad other reasons why an employee may stay that long in a position. The company may have offered great benefits beyond pay that no other company had been able to match. The person may have simply really enjoyed his job and valued that over advancement. They may have simply been of the old school mindset that you don't change jobs every few years. They may have a medical condition that caused them to stay put, either for work environment or insurance reasons.
– Kevin
29 mins ago
The data doesn't support your assumptions either. There are myriad other reasons why an employee may stay that long in a position. The company may have offered great benefits beyond pay that no other company had been able to match. The person may have simply really enjoyed his job and valued that over advancement. They may have simply been of the old school mindset that you don't change jobs every few years. They may have a medical condition that caused them to stay put, either for work environment or insurance reasons.
– Kevin
29 mins ago
add a comment |
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63
Why is it extremely fishy?
– Kozaky
5 hours ago
14
@LauriElias Or they're happy with what they're doing and have plenty of diversity in their role.
– Twyxz
4 hours ago
51
@LauriElias: “A smart person would get bored of maintaining a Spring app for a decade” — there are so many completely baseless prejudices wrapped up in that little statement.
– Paul D. Waite
4 hours ago
40
I find it amazing that some people find an individual who is not interested in climbing the corporate ladder and achieving world domination to be suspicious.
– gburton
2 hours ago
29
I would be more than happy to be checked by a doctor with 15+ years of experience on his field. Or to watch a lecture from a teacher with 15+ years of experience on his subject. Or to eat the food from a chef with 15+ years of experience on the kitchen. Why software development would be different?
– T. Sar
2 hours ago