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What is the purpose of easy combat scenarios that don't need resource expenditure?
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This is something I've been thinking about as a DM in my encounter design: Why have easy/medium/etc combat encounters that don't really require resources to successfully complete?
Given the limited time many of our tables have to actually play, I've never created "easy" combats that don't require resources because they seem like a waste of table time. If there isn't a challenge and no resources are needed to overcome the enemy, then isn't the combat win just kind of a gimme and it's only actual resource used is everyone's actual time at the table?
I've generally looked at 5e combat like a game of resources and in order to successfully challenge my players to make it interesting, the combat generally has to be difficult - but I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing to the easy-win combats.
dnd-5e gm-techniques combat encounter-design resource-consumption
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add a comment |
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This is something I've been thinking about as a DM in my encounter design: Why have easy/medium/etc combat encounters that don't really require resources to successfully complete?
Given the limited time many of our tables have to actually play, I've never created "easy" combats that don't require resources because they seem like a waste of table time. If there isn't a challenge and no resources are needed to overcome the enemy, then isn't the combat win just kind of a gimme and it's only actual resource used is everyone's actual time at the table?
I've generally looked at 5e combat like a game of resources and in order to successfully challenge my players to make it interesting, the combat generally has to be difficult - but I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing to the easy-win combats.
dnd-5e gm-techniques combat encounter-design resource-consumption
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I feel the same. Apparently, 5e is balanced for 2 short rests and 6-8 encounters per adventuring day. But seriously, who actually has that much time, or even enjoys that many (mostly repetitive & boring) encounters (except for in dungeons)?
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– PixelMaster
3 hours ago
1
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@PixelMaster Yeah, that's my big concern. I tend to run 2-3 deadly combat encounters per day and that works from a resource management perspective, but it also makes combat...deadly.
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– NautArch
2 hours ago
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All my combat encounters are deadly, like you say, but main objective is to create incentive for combat avoidance, enhance roleplay and storytelling instead of board-gaming combat.
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– adonies
21 mins ago
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@adonies I think you may be trying to post an answer as a comment - but it's not clear what you're really trying to say. I think if you remove the comment and post it as a more fleshed out answer, it'll be helpful.
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– NautArch
20 mins ago
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I just saw this on HNQ, so I'm not going to touch answering as my DnD experience is pretty limited. But wouldn't it be a bit strange if you went on an adventure, continuously got stronger, and found that every single time you got involved in combat, the enemies were also getting stronger?
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– JMac
4 mins ago
add a comment |
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This is something I've been thinking about as a DM in my encounter design: Why have easy/medium/etc combat encounters that don't really require resources to successfully complete?
Given the limited time many of our tables have to actually play, I've never created "easy" combats that don't require resources because they seem like a waste of table time. If there isn't a challenge and no resources are needed to overcome the enemy, then isn't the combat win just kind of a gimme and it's only actual resource used is everyone's actual time at the table?
I've generally looked at 5e combat like a game of resources and in order to successfully challenge my players to make it interesting, the combat generally has to be difficult - but I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing to the easy-win combats.
dnd-5e gm-techniques combat encounter-design resource-consumption
$endgroup$
This is something I've been thinking about as a DM in my encounter design: Why have easy/medium/etc combat encounters that don't really require resources to successfully complete?
Given the limited time many of our tables have to actually play, I've never created "easy" combats that don't require resources because they seem like a waste of table time. If there isn't a challenge and no resources are needed to overcome the enemy, then isn't the combat win just kind of a gimme and it's only actual resource used is everyone's actual time at the table?
I've generally looked at 5e combat like a game of resources and in order to successfully challenge my players to make it interesting, the combat generally has to be difficult - but I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing to the easy-win combats.
dnd-5e gm-techniques combat encounter-design resource-consumption
dnd-5e gm-techniques combat encounter-design resource-consumption
edited 3 hours ago
PixelMaster
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NautArchNautArch
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I feel the same. Apparently, 5e is balanced for 2 short rests and 6-8 encounters per adventuring day. But seriously, who actually has that much time, or even enjoys that many (mostly repetitive & boring) encounters (except for in dungeons)?
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– PixelMaster
3 hours ago
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@PixelMaster Yeah, that's my big concern. I tend to run 2-3 deadly combat encounters per day and that works from a resource management perspective, but it also makes combat...deadly.
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– NautArch
2 hours ago
1
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All my combat encounters are deadly, like you say, but main objective is to create incentive for combat avoidance, enhance roleplay and storytelling instead of board-gaming combat.
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– adonies
21 mins ago
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@adonies I think you may be trying to post an answer as a comment - but it's not clear what you're really trying to say. I think if you remove the comment and post it as a more fleshed out answer, it'll be helpful.
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– NautArch
20 mins ago
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I just saw this on HNQ, so I'm not going to touch answering as my DnD experience is pretty limited. But wouldn't it be a bit strange if you went on an adventure, continuously got stronger, and found that every single time you got involved in combat, the enemies were also getting stronger?
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– JMac
4 mins ago
add a comment |
1
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I feel the same. Apparently, 5e is balanced for 2 short rests and 6-8 encounters per adventuring day. But seriously, who actually has that much time, or even enjoys that many (mostly repetitive & boring) encounters (except for in dungeons)?
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– PixelMaster
3 hours ago
1
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@PixelMaster Yeah, that's my big concern. I tend to run 2-3 deadly combat encounters per day and that works from a resource management perspective, but it also makes combat...deadly.
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– NautArch
2 hours ago
1
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All my combat encounters are deadly, like you say, but main objective is to create incentive for combat avoidance, enhance roleplay and storytelling instead of board-gaming combat.
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– adonies
21 mins ago
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@adonies I think you may be trying to post an answer as a comment - but it's not clear what you're really trying to say. I think if you remove the comment and post it as a more fleshed out answer, it'll be helpful.
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– NautArch
20 mins ago
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I just saw this on HNQ, so I'm not going to touch answering as my DnD experience is pretty limited. But wouldn't it be a bit strange if you went on an adventure, continuously got stronger, and found that every single time you got involved in combat, the enemies were also getting stronger?
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– JMac
4 mins ago
1
1
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I feel the same. Apparently, 5e is balanced for 2 short rests and 6-8 encounters per adventuring day. But seriously, who actually has that much time, or even enjoys that many (mostly repetitive & boring) encounters (except for in dungeons)?
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– PixelMaster
3 hours ago
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I feel the same. Apparently, 5e is balanced for 2 short rests and 6-8 encounters per adventuring day. But seriously, who actually has that much time, or even enjoys that many (mostly repetitive & boring) encounters (except for in dungeons)?
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– PixelMaster
3 hours ago
1
1
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@PixelMaster Yeah, that's my big concern. I tend to run 2-3 deadly combat encounters per day and that works from a resource management perspective, but it also makes combat...deadly.
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– NautArch
2 hours ago
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@PixelMaster Yeah, that's my big concern. I tend to run 2-3 deadly combat encounters per day and that works from a resource management perspective, but it also makes combat...deadly.
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– NautArch
2 hours ago
1
1
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All my combat encounters are deadly, like you say, but main objective is to create incentive for combat avoidance, enhance roleplay and storytelling instead of board-gaming combat.
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– adonies
21 mins ago
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All my combat encounters are deadly, like you say, but main objective is to create incentive for combat avoidance, enhance roleplay and storytelling instead of board-gaming combat.
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– adonies
21 mins ago
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@adonies I think you may be trying to post an answer as a comment - but it's not clear what you're really trying to say. I think if you remove the comment and post it as a more fleshed out answer, it'll be helpful.
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– NautArch
20 mins ago
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@adonies I think you may be trying to post an answer as a comment - but it's not clear what you're really trying to say. I think if you remove the comment and post it as a more fleshed out answer, it'll be helpful.
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– NautArch
20 mins ago
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I just saw this on HNQ, so I'm not going to touch answering as my DnD experience is pretty limited. But wouldn't it be a bit strange if you went on an adventure, continuously got stronger, and found that every single time you got involved in combat, the enemies were also getting stronger?
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– JMac
4 mins ago
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I just saw this on HNQ, so I'm not going to touch answering as my DnD experience is pretty limited. But wouldn't it be a bit strange if you went on an adventure, continuously got stronger, and found that every single time you got involved in combat, the enemies were also getting stronger?
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– JMac
4 mins ago
add a comment |
8 Answers
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Others have mentioned other reasons, but here's another that I find particularly compelling.
In a game of D&D, it is generally accepted that the DM will build combat encounters to be difficult for the characters no matter what level they are at. This can lead to a pattern where your players feel as though, even with all the new powers they are getting, they are still weak.
Giving them a combat or two that is low level can remind the players how far they've come, especially if you choose similar enemies to a well-remembered early combat. For example, if your campaign opened on a difficult battle against a group of wolves, tossing some wolves at your now 8th-level players can help them feel as though they have grown in power.
It's a way to reward players for making progression and leveling up. It shows them that, even though on the game's main course they will always be challenged, they are still very powerful individuals, apart from the rest of the world.
It's a way to help them personally experience how far they've come, instead of just telling them so using numbers on their sheet.
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I really like the idea of throwing something at them that they faced before with difficulty.
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– NautArch
2 hours ago
1
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This is one reason people like Metroidvania video games, when you are forced to backtrack over areas that you first struggled through, but with new powers, it shows you how strong and capable you've become
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– Kevin Wells
28 mins ago
add a comment |
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Combat as a mechanical resource
If you are using XP progression (which is the default way to play, according to the PHB) and you want to give your player characters some catching-up, then you could use an easy combat encounter for this purpose. Similarly, you could give the party items as a reward from such encounters.
Combat as a pacing tool
While D&D is essentially a combat engine, not all campaigns are heavy on combat. Often, story-driven or intrigue campaigns tend to be light on combat. They may essentially involve the party going from location A to location B. If the players seem to get bored by this pace, the DM could add the occasional easy combat encounter to maintain player engagement.
For example, if the party is traveling by ship and the DM wants the voyage to seem more substantial than a scene transition, then an encounter with mutineering pirates or ambushing sahuagins could make the voyage more interesting.
Combat as storytelling
When you narrate your game world, the DM's medium isn't limited to the words they say when the player characters walk into the dungeon and look around. Instead of communicating via exposition, the DM can use interactive in-game challenges to convey the same message.
Much like how environmental exploration can be a means of storytelling, you can use combat encounters as a form of narration, worldbuilding, and foreshadowing. For example, the DM may communicate that a crypt is infested with undead via hostile undead, rather than exposition. Or, suppose the PCs are exploring a forest with a big bad CR 3 Winter Wolf at the end, and the DM wants to foreshadow "Here be wolves." Instead of exposition via NPC dialogue or narration, they could instead send some CR 1/4 Wolves as a greeting party.
Disclaimer: Adding extra combats is not universally beneficial to every game, especially when time is limited. Eschewing combat in favor of a battle summary ("You stab the goblin and get 100 XP and 5 gp") or narration ("The sign says there are zombies inside") is more efficient than a time-consuming battle, but potentially less engaging. However, for the reasons given above, these extra easy combats can be beneficial to some games, and the DM should consider the tradeoffs before adding them to their campaign.
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In terms of XP, though - why not just say you've won and hand it out (like not rolling for something you will know succeed/fail?) My main concern is the amount of time the encounter will take at the table just to hand out some more XP to 'catch up'. THey've caught up, great - but now we've put a session in towards that rather than moving the story along.
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– NautArch
2 hours ago
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A lot of this has to do with time management at the table. Yes, you could use the combat as exposition, but that takes a LOT more time then just saying "here be wolves" that could be spent moving things forward more. That, and players often miss even heavy handed clues.
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– NautArch
2 hours ago
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@NautArch Agreed, with every benefit there is a tradeoff, and combat is often time-consuming and inefficient. My answer may not apply 100% to your campaign, but it may help other DMs who also face this question. Combat is one of many DM tools for pacing or storytelling, however, it should not be the DM's go-to solution.
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– MikeQ
2 hours ago
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OH definitely! We typically do a 3 hour session and most times i'll do an hour of roleplay and 2 hours of combat. But that's fungible depending on what's happening (either one can shift in ratio.)
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– NautArch
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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Because it's fun
The purpose of the game isn't to accumulate, track and expend resources, it's to enjoy the process. Combat encounters are a major part of the major (though not all!) RPG game system designs because many people like to play combat encounters. For example, one can think of D&D 4E as a foray towards 'tactical combat boardgame', which is an attraction for some groups and a detraction for others.
Challenges are not resource costs
There does need to be some feeling of a challenge and risk involved to improve involvement, but that's IMHO orthogonal to resource expenditure - there's no meaningful difference between "Oh, we're just going to smash these goblins so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot" and "Oh, we're just going to smash these goblins so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot, and cross out some ammo, wand charges and a healing potion".
In both cases we play out the combat encounter (instead of reducing it to the abovementioned sentences) if and only if it's fun to do, not because we want to accurately track expended resources. Groups who don't enjoy playing out encounters without a story impact shouldn't play them out in detail even if it'd be a hard encounter that costs resources. If your story, setting and group fits that, then it'd be appropriate to just say "while you're resting for the night, a bunch of wolves attack your camp. You defeat them, but it costs you resources X, Y and Z". And if your group enjoys playing out tactical combat, then they'll likely want to play out also scenarios where they have an advantage.
There are various games which do explicitly handle challenges as resource costs i.e. "spend X, or get consequences Y". In most of its forms, D&D isn't really one of these systems. It can be used like this, depending on the DM, but it intentionally has a lot of "heavyweight" combat mechanics designed to play out encounters in tactical detail, instead of resolving them as a resource metagame. After all, D&D early origins come from the miniature wargaming community, and it's reflected even in 5e rules.
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Well, thats kind of what I'm asking. Is it actually fun to spend valuable table time on an easy-win? From my own experience, I've questioned the use of such time as player.
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– NautArch
1 hour ago
2
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you assume that "people like to play combat encounters". That might be true for you and/or your table, but for example not for me or my table. I like encounters that add something to the story, and I also like the occasional dungeon - but I absolutely don't like "random encounters" that only exist to use up resources, unless there's an interesting aspect about them - such as a new, mysterious creature type, or fancy loot. "Getting to play out an encounter" isn't enough of a reward for me to enjoy an encounter.
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– PixelMaster
1 hour ago
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@NautArch I think it's almost getting to subjective at that point? If people get to feel 'epic' or 'cool', for them it's worth the time. I know in games I've played and dm'd it's been something discussed at session 0.
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– akozi
1 hour ago
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@akozi It is subjective, but that's okay if it's backed by table experience.
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– NautArch
1 hour ago
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I can attest to the example given: a combat encounter that (in another system) literally was “Oh, we're just going to smash these [enemies] so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot” was distinctly un-fun, even for me who is not usually a centrally combat-motivated RPGer. My experience is that easy combats that are actually gamed out are much more fun.
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– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
|
show 8 more comments
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Variety breathes life in the game.
D&D is not a video game where the difficulty of an encounter is carefully tailored to always be Medium/Hard for the current group of players.
Instead, I have found that a variety of difficulties makes encounters more fun.
Just like various foes should react differently, various foes should present different difficulty levels. For example it is unrealistic that the cities gatekeepers, paid a couple coppers a day, be a real challenge to a high-level party... but it may not prevent said gatekeepers from challenging the party nonetheless.
Varying difficulty levels make the World take a life on its own, rather than strictly revolving around the party. It gives a more "sandbox" feel.
Variety fosters Role-Play.
Similarly, variety limits meta-gaming and fosters role-play.
If the players are used to always encountering a certain level of difficulty, they will adapt their gameplay: they know that an encounter requires a certain amount of buffing, and the expenditure of a certain amount of resources (spells, potions, etc...), so as combat starts the Cleric casts a protective spell... "as usual".
Instead, when the difficulty of encounters swings wildly between Easy and Deadly (or Impossible), and cannot be "meta-gamed", then the players have to proceed cautiously, and have to use their characters' knowledge and interactions to suss out how strong the opposition really is.
Personally I find it more realistic.
I would note that this does not mean that the combat should become boring and sluggish. The DM is in position to shorten the fight by having the opposition flee or throw down their weapons when they realize how hopeless the fight is... such as after just witnessed one of their allies getting cleaved in two in a single swing by the Big Bad Fighter.
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Not forcing completion for the sake of completion is a very interesting method to give them that "powerful" feeling without wasting table time.
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– NautArch
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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There are two reasons I use those now and again
Sometimes, the players need to feel successful.
I use this particularly with new players, and with younger players when I deem that a tougher encounter might go badly.
Sometimes, the party's foes make a mistake.
Just as the PCs can now and again underestimate how hard an encounter or monster is, the reverse is true. This is more of a narrative based approach, and works either in an ambush scenario (where the bandits really don't know who they are messing with) or after a social situation when the reaction by the party's opponent leads to blows (due to ego, anger, surprise reveal of pet peeve, or something else on the part of the opponent/leader). In a case like this, social to combat transition, if there are a goodly sized number of opponents, some of them fleeing or surrendering if the party begins to beat the stuffing out of them is a common result. That leads to a non combat encounter/situation: what do we do with these prisoners?
A last reason that I no longer use with our current group: to get
the party used to not expending resources as a reflex.
A group of old timers had developed the habit of going nova early since I tended to run 3 or 4 encounters at the hard - deadly level. (I tend to backwards budget daily XP budget to make encounter bundles). On the fourth encounter of that day, I went 'easy to medium' since they had no spell slots left, but there were still plenty of enemies in the area. The party won handily except that one character had to make a death save due to getting hit by a crit. The crit / damage spike phenomenon is part of the swinginess of the d20 system. (I don't do this anymore since there is a limit to how many new tricks old dogs will learn.)
@Matthieu'sM's point on variety making for a fun game experience is something I've seen at tables from both sides of the screen.
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Did the players feel 'good' about those encounters? Or did they feel that they were too easy and just a time waste?
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– NautArch
2 hours ago
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@NautArch In which case are you asking?
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– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
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Probably more with the more experienced player - but in general, do they like combat encounters that they breeze through because they were made to breeze through (and not just due to their smart tactics/good rolls.)
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– NautArch
1 hour ago
1
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@NautArch Depends on the group; now and again the case two PWNage event leads to a serial encounter with prisoners that they then deal with in a non combat way. Matthieu's point on 'variety adding to the gaming experience' is spot on here.
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– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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I have used easy encounters several times in my campaign, for two reasons:
- They've made a right decision or succeeded a roll, usually sneak or deception to lure some enemies away.
- I have a player that likes combat.
An example is when they were tracking bandits to their hideout. They succeeded perception roll to find a hidden passage right into the abandoned castle, where there were only 1-2 guards, as opposed to 4-5 guards on the main gate.
The easy encounter is given to give a sense of accomplishment for choosing the right option or succeeding an important roll (and make sure later they know what would happened if they choose the wrong option or failed the roll).
I also still put the encounter there, although I can easily narrate they beat the guards easily, to give at least one encounter per session for this player. He is happy with this arrangement, and the others too (usually the encounter only lasted 10 minutes).
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To reduce player paranoia
If players expect each combat encounter to be deadly or at least to consume a significant amount of resources they will approach the game very carefully. That means more of the game time is spent on planning instead of action.
In extreme cases it can lead to players anticipating to encounter danger even when there isn't any or trying to avoid combat at any cost. This is similar to how springing deadly traps upon players will make them check every nook and cranny before proceeding and can significantly slow down the game.
By occasionally introducing an encounter that can be won without any planning, complicated tactics or significant losses you can encourage players to be bolder and take more risks in the future. It could also speed up gameplay and even make player actions more varied if they don't feel pressured to make the most optimal choice every turn.
While watching players overcome the odds against a difficult encounter is undoubtedly fun, sometimes it is more fun to watch them charge recklessly into the fray, which they won't do if they know it will end up badly.
New contributor
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Some people like it.
Take a look at page 6 of your DMG. (It's a fantastic resource.) One of the player types there just wants to be awesome in combat. They may or may not enjoy tactical challenge. They do enjoy the idea of charging into a horde of orcs, and hitting one orc so hard that his head comes flying off and strikes another orc, killing both of them on the spot. This is the part of the game that that player really gets into. Now, if you're a player who's really into tactical optimization and balancing resources and so forth, there isn't going to be a lot of appeal, but if you're that kind of player, then Easy encounters aren't really for you. They're for the kind of player that likes to be reminded from time to time that, as a sixth-level barbarian, they really are a raging badass that most people would have reason to be rightly terrified of.
It's a refreshing break
Shakespeare had humorous scenes even in the middle of his tragedies. You can, too. Giving the players an opportunity to cut loose on some hapless foes who aren't a meaningful threat and maybe show off a bit can offer a mental break in the middle of an otherwise grindingly difficult dungeon. That both gives them a bit of mental recovery time and means that when they jump back into the trenches, it hits them fresh again. Both effects can be worthwhile for crafting the experience.
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8 Answers
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$begingroup$
Others have mentioned other reasons, but here's another that I find particularly compelling.
In a game of D&D, it is generally accepted that the DM will build combat encounters to be difficult for the characters no matter what level they are at. This can lead to a pattern where your players feel as though, even with all the new powers they are getting, they are still weak.
Giving them a combat or two that is low level can remind the players how far they've come, especially if you choose similar enemies to a well-remembered early combat. For example, if your campaign opened on a difficult battle against a group of wolves, tossing some wolves at your now 8th-level players can help them feel as though they have grown in power.
It's a way to reward players for making progression and leveling up. It shows them that, even though on the game's main course they will always be challenged, they are still very powerful individuals, apart from the rest of the world.
It's a way to help them personally experience how far they've come, instead of just telling them so using numbers on their sheet.
$endgroup$
9
$begingroup$
I really like the idea of throwing something at them that they faced before with difficulty.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
This is one reason people like Metroidvania video games, when you are forced to backtrack over areas that you first struggled through, but with new powers, it shows you how strong and capable you've become
$endgroup$
– Kevin Wells
28 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Others have mentioned other reasons, but here's another that I find particularly compelling.
In a game of D&D, it is generally accepted that the DM will build combat encounters to be difficult for the characters no matter what level they are at. This can lead to a pattern where your players feel as though, even with all the new powers they are getting, they are still weak.
Giving them a combat or two that is low level can remind the players how far they've come, especially if you choose similar enemies to a well-remembered early combat. For example, if your campaign opened on a difficult battle against a group of wolves, tossing some wolves at your now 8th-level players can help them feel as though they have grown in power.
It's a way to reward players for making progression and leveling up. It shows them that, even though on the game's main course they will always be challenged, they are still very powerful individuals, apart from the rest of the world.
It's a way to help them personally experience how far they've come, instead of just telling them so using numbers on their sheet.
$endgroup$
9
$begingroup$
I really like the idea of throwing something at them that they faced before with difficulty.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
This is one reason people like Metroidvania video games, when you are forced to backtrack over areas that you first struggled through, but with new powers, it shows you how strong and capable you've become
$endgroup$
– Kevin Wells
28 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Others have mentioned other reasons, but here's another that I find particularly compelling.
In a game of D&D, it is generally accepted that the DM will build combat encounters to be difficult for the characters no matter what level they are at. This can lead to a pattern where your players feel as though, even with all the new powers they are getting, they are still weak.
Giving them a combat or two that is low level can remind the players how far they've come, especially if you choose similar enemies to a well-remembered early combat. For example, if your campaign opened on a difficult battle against a group of wolves, tossing some wolves at your now 8th-level players can help them feel as though they have grown in power.
It's a way to reward players for making progression and leveling up. It shows them that, even though on the game's main course they will always be challenged, they are still very powerful individuals, apart from the rest of the world.
It's a way to help them personally experience how far they've come, instead of just telling them so using numbers on their sheet.
$endgroup$
Others have mentioned other reasons, but here's another that I find particularly compelling.
In a game of D&D, it is generally accepted that the DM will build combat encounters to be difficult for the characters no matter what level they are at. This can lead to a pattern where your players feel as though, even with all the new powers they are getting, they are still weak.
Giving them a combat or two that is low level can remind the players how far they've come, especially if you choose similar enemies to a well-remembered early combat. For example, if your campaign opened on a difficult battle against a group of wolves, tossing some wolves at your now 8th-level players can help them feel as though they have grown in power.
It's a way to reward players for making progression and leveling up. It shows them that, even though on the game's main course they will always be challenged, they are still very powerful individuals, apart from the rest of the world.
It's a way to help them personally experience how far they've come, instead of just telling them so using numbers on their sheet.
answered 2 hours ago
LondonLondon
28318
28318
9
$begingroup$
I really like the idea of throwing something at them that they faced before with difficulty.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
This is one reason people like Metroidvania video games, when you are forced to backtrack over areas that you first struggled through, but with new powers, it shows you how strong and capable you've become
$endgroup$
– Kevin Wells
28 mins ago
add a comment |
9
$begingroup$
I really like the idea of throwing something at them that they faced before with difficulty.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
This is one reason people like Metroidvania video games, when you are forced to backtrack over areas that you first struggled through, but with new powers, it shows you how strong and capable you've become
$endgroup$
– Kevin Wells
28 mins ago
9
9
$begingroup$
I really like the idea of throwing something at them that they faced before with difficulty.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I really like the idea of throwing something at them that they faced before with difficulty.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
This is one reason people like Metroidvania video games, when you are forced to backtrack over areas that you first struggled through, but with new powers, it shows you how strong and capable you've become
$endgroup$
– Kevin Wells
28 mins ago
$begingroup$
This is one reason people like Metroidvania video games, when you are forced to backtrack over areas that you first struggled through, but with new powers, it shows you how strong and capable you've become
$endgroup$
– Kevin Wells
28 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Combat as a mechanical resource
If you are using XP progression (which is the default way to play, according to the PHB) and you want to give your player characters some catching-up, then you could use an easy combat encounter for this purpose. Similarly, you could give the party items as a reward from such encounters.
Combat as a pacing tool
While D&D is essentially a combat engine, not all campaigns are heavy on combat. Often, story-driven or intrigue campaigns tend to be light on combat. They may essentially involve the party going from location A to location B. If the players seem to get bored by this pace, the DM could add the occasional easy combat encounter to maintain player engagement.
For example, if the party is traveling by ship and the DM wants the voyage to seem more substantial than a scene transition, then an encounter with mutineering pirates or ambushing sahuagins could make the voyage more interesting.
Combat as storytelling
When you narrate your game world, the DM's medium isn't limited to the words they say when the player characters walk into the dungeon and look around. Instead of communicating via exposition, the DM can use interactive in-game challenges to convey the same message.
Much like how environmental exploration can be a means of storytelling, you can use combat encounters as a form of narration, worldbuilding, and foreshadowing. For example, the DM may communicate that a crypt is infested with undead via hostile undead, rather than exposition. Or, suppose the PCs are exploring a forest with a big bad CR 3 Winter Wolf at the end, and the DM wants to foreshadow "Here be wolves." Instead of exposition via NPC dialogue or narration, they could instead send some CR 1/4 Wolves as a greeting party.
Disclaimer: Adding extra combats is not universally beneficial to every game, especially when time is limited. Eschewing combat in favor of a battle summary ("You stab the goblin and get 100 XP and 5 gp") or narration ("The sign says there are zombies inside") is more efficient than a time-consuming battle, but potentially less engaging. However, for the reasons given above, these extra easy combats can be beneficial to some games, and the DM should consider the tradeoffs before adding them to their campaign.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
In terms of XP, though - why not just say you've won and hand it out (like not rolling for something you will know succeed/fail?) My main concern is the amount of time the encounter will take at the table just to hand out some more XP to 'catch up'. THey've caught up, great - but now we've put a session in towards that rather than moving the story along.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
A lot of this has to do with time management at the table. Yes, you could use the combat as exposition, but that takes a LOT more time then just saying "here be wolves" that could be spent moving things forward more. That, and players often miss even heavy handed clues.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Agreed, with every benefit there is a tradeoff, and combat is often time-consuming and inefficient. My answer may not apply 100% to your campaign, but it may help other DMs who also face this question. Combat is one of many DM tools for pacing or storytelling, however, it should not be the DM's go-to solution.
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
OH definitely! We typically do a 3 hour session and most times i'll do an hour of roleplay and 2 hours of combat. But that's fungible depending on what's happening (either one can shift in ratio.)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Combat as a mechanical resource
If you are using XP progression (which is the default way to play, according to the PHB) and you want to give your player characters some catching-up, then you could use an easy combat encounter for this purpose. Similarly, you could give the party items as a reward from such encounters.
Combat as a pacing tool
While D&D is essentially a combat engine, not all campaigns are heavy on combat. Often, story-driven or intrigue campaigns tend to be light on combat. They may essentially involve the party going from location A to location B. If the players seem to get bored by this pace, the DM could add the occasional easy combat encounter to maintain player engagement.
For example, if the party is traveling by ship and the DM wants the voyage to seem more substantial than a scene transition, then an encounter with mutineering pirates or ambushing sahuagins could make the voyage more interesting.
Combat as storytelling
When you narrate your game world, the DM's medium isn't limited to the words they say when the player characters walk into the dungeon and look around. Instead of communicating via exposition, the DM can use interactive in-game challenges to convey the same message.
Much like how environmental exploration can be a means of storytelling, you can use combat encounters as a form of narration, worldbuilding, and foreshadowing. For example, the DM may communicate that a crypt is infested with undead via hostile undead, rather than exposition. Or, suppose the PCs are exploring a forest with a big bad CR 3 Winter Wolf at the end, and the DM wants to foreshadow "Here be wolves." Instead of exposition via NPC dialogue or narration, they could instead send some CR 1/4 Wolves as a greeting party.
Disclaimer: Adding extra combats is not universally beneficial to every game, especially when time is limited. Eschewing combat in favor of a battle summary ("You stab the goblin and get 100 XP and 5 gp") or narration ("The sign says there are zombies inside") is more efficient than a time-consuming battle, but potentially less engaging. However, for the reasons given above, these extra easy combats can be beneficial to some games, and the DM should consider the tradeoffs before adding them to their campaign.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
In terms of XP, though - why not just say you've won and hand it out (like not rolling for something you will know succeed/fail?) My main concern is the amount of time the encounter will take at the table just to hand out some more XP to 'catch up'. THey've caught up, great - but now we've put a session in towards that rather than moving the story along.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
A lot of this has to do with time management at the table. Yes, you could use the combat as exposition, but that takes a LOT more time then just saying "here be wolves" that could be spent moving things forward more. That, and players often miss even heavy handed clues.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Agreed, with every benefit there is a tradeoff, and combat is often time-consuming and inefficient. My answer may not apply 100% to your campaign, but it may help other DMs who also face this question. Combat is one of many DM tools for pacing or storytelling, however, it should not be the DM's go-to solution.
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
OH definitely! We typically do a 3 hour session and most times i'll do an hour of roleplay and 2 hours of combat. But that's fungible depending on what's happening (either one can shift in ratio.)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Combat as a mechanical resource
If you are using XP progression (which is the default way to play, according to the PHB) and you want to give your player characters some catching-up, then you could use an easy combat encounter for this purpose. Similarly, you could give the party items as a reward from such encounters.
Combat as a pacing tool
While D&D is essentially a combat engine, not all campaigns are heavy on combat. Often, story-driven or intrigue campaigns tend to be light on combat. They may essentially involve the party going from location A to location B. If the players seem to get bored by this pace, the DM could add the occasional easy combat encounter to maintain player engagement.
For example, if the party is traveling by ship and the DM wants the voyage to seem more substantial than a scene transition, then an encounter with mutineering pirates or ambushing sahuagins could make the voyage more interesting.
Combat as storytelling
When you narrate your game world, the DM's medium isn't limited to the words they say when the player characters walk into the dungeon and look around. Instead of communicating via exposition, the DM can use interactive in-game challenges to convey the same message.
Much like how environmental exploration can be a means of storytelling, you can use combat encounters as a form of narration, worldbuilding, and foreshadowing. For example, the DM may communicate that a crypt is infested with undead via hostile undead, rather than exposition. Or, suppose the PCs are exploring a forest with a big bad CR 3 Winter Wolf at the end, and the DM wants to foreshadow "Here be wolves." Instead of exposition via NPC dialogue or narration, they could instead send some CR 1/4 Wolves as a greeting party.
Disclaimer: Adding extra combats is not universally beneficial to every game, especially when time is limited. Eschewing combat in favor of a battle summary ("You stab the goblin and get 100 XP and 5 gp") or narration ("The sign says there are zombies inside") is more efficient than a time-consuming battle, but potentially less engaging. However, for the reasons given above, these extra easy combats can be beneficial to some games, and the DM should consider the tradeoffs before adding them to their campaign.
$endgroup$
Combat as a mechanical resource
If you are using XP progression (which is the default way to play, according to the PHB) and you want to give your player characters some catching-up, then you could use an easy combat encounter for this purpose. Similarly, you could give the party items as a reward from such encounters.
Combat as a pacing tool
While D&D is essentially a combat engine, not all campaigns are heavy on combat. Often, story-driven or intrigue campaigns tend to be light on combat. They may essentially involve the party going from location A to location B. If the players seem to get bored by this pace, the DM could add the occasional easy combat encounter to maintain player engagement.
For example, if the party is traveling by ship and the DM wants the voyage to seem more substantial than a scene transition, then an encounter with mutineering pirates or ambushing sahuagins could make the voyage more interesting.
Combat as storytelling
When you narrate your game world, the DM's medium isn't limited to the words they say when the player characters walk into the dungeon and look around. Instead of communicating via exposition, the DM can use interactive in-game challenges to convey the same message.
Much like how environmental exploration can be a means of storytelling, you can use combat encounters as a form of narration, worldbuilding, and foreshadowing. For example, the DM may communicate that a crypt is infested with undead via hostile undead, rather than exposition. Or, suppose the PCs are exploring a forest with a big bad CR 3 Winter Wolf at the end, and the DM wants to foreshadow "Here be wolves." Instead of exposition via NPC dialogue or narration, they could instead send some CR 1/4 Wolves as a greeting party.
Disclaimer: Adding extra combats is not universally beneficial to every game, especially when time is limited. Eschewing combat in favor of a battle summary ("You stab the goblin and get 100 XP and 5 gp") or narration ("The sign says there are zombies inside") is more efficient than a time-consuming battle, but potentially less engaging. However, for the reasons given above, these extra easy combats can be beneficial to some games, and the DM should consider the tradeoffs before adding them to their campaign.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
MikeQMikeQ
13.7k52982
13.7k52982
$begingroup$
In terms of XP, though - why not just say you've won and hand it out (like not rolling for something you will know succeed/fail?) My main concern is the amount of time the encounter will take at the table just to hand out some more XP to 'catch up'. THey've caught up, great - but now we've put a session in towards that rather than moving the story along.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
A lot of this has to do with time management at the table. Yes, you could use the combat as exposition, but that takes a LOT more time then just saying "here be wolves" that could be spent moving things forward more. That, and players often miss even heavy handed clues.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Agreed, with every benefit there is a tradeoff, and combat is often time-consuming and inefficient. My answer may not apply 100% to your campaign, but it may help other DMs who also face this question. Combat is one of many DM tools for pacing or storytelling, however, it should not be the DM's go-to solution.
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
OH definitely! We typically do a 3 hour session and most times i'll do an hour of roleplay and 2 hours of combat. But that's fungible depending on what's happening (either one can shift in ratio.)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In terms of XP, though - why not just say you've won and hand it out (like not rolling for something you will know succeed/fail?) My main concern is the amount of time the encounter will take at the table just to hand out some more XP to 'catch up'. THey've caught up, great - but now we've put a session in towards that rather than moving the story along.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
A lot of this has to do with time management at the table. Yes, you could use the combat as exposition, but that takes a LOT more time then just saying "here be wolves" that could be spent moving things forward more. That, and players often miss even heavy handed clues.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Agreed, with every benefit there is a tradeoff, and combat is often time-consuming and inefficient. My answer may not apply 100% to your campaign, but it may help other DMs who also face this question. Combat is one of many DM tools for pacing or storytelling, however, it should not be the DM's go-to solution.
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
OH definitely! We typically do a 3 hour session and most times i'll do an hour of roleplay and 2 hours of combat. But that's fungible depending on what's happening (either one can shift in ratio.)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
In terms of XP, though - why not just say you've won and hand it out (like not rolling for something you will know succeed/fail?) My main concern is the amount of time the encounter will take at the table just to hand out some more XP to 'catch up'. THey've caught up, great - but now we've put a session in towards that rather than moving the story along.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
In terms of XP, though - why not just say you've won and hand it out (like not rolling for something you will know succeed/fail?) My main concern is the amount of time the encounter will take at the table just to hand out some more XP to 'catch up'. THey've caught up, great - but now we've put a session in towards that rather than moving the story along.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
A lot of this has to do with time management at the table. Yes, you could use the combat as exposition, but that takes a LOT more time then just saying "here be wolves" that could be spent moving things forward more. That, and players often miss even heavy handed clues.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
A lot of this has to do with time management at the table. Yes, you could use the combat as exposition, but that takes a LOT more time then just saying "here be wolves" that could be spent moving things forward more. That, and players often miss even heavy handed clues.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Agreed, with every benefit there is a tradeoff, and combat is often time-consuming and inefficient. My answer may not apply 100% to your campaign, but it may help other DMs who also face this question. Combat is one of many DM tools for pacing or storytelling, however, it should not be the DM's go-to solution.
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Agreed, with every benefit there is a tradeoff, and combat is often time-consuming and inefficient. My answer may not apply 100% to your campaign, but it may help other DMs who also face this question. Combat is one of many DM tools for pacing or storytelling, however, it should not be the DM's go-to solution.
$endgroup$
– MikeQ
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
OH definitely! We typically do a 3 hour session and most times i'll do an hour of roleplay and 2 hours of combat. But that's fungible depending on what's happening (either one can shift in ratio.)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
OH definitely! We typically do a 3 hour session and most times i'll do an hour of roleplay and 2 hours of combat. But that's fungible depending on what's happening (either one can shift in ratio.)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Because it's fun
The purpose of the game isn't to accumulate, track and expend resources, it's to enjoy the process. Combat encounters are a major part of the major (though not all!) RPG game system designs because many people like to play combat encounters. For example, one can think of D&D 4E as a foray towards 'tactical combat boardgame', which is an attraction for some groups and a detraction for others.
Challenges are not resource costs
There does need to be some feeling of a challenge and risk involved to improve involvement, but that's IMHO orthogonal to resource expenditure - there's no meaningful difference between "Oh, we're just going to smash these goblins so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot" and "Oh, we're just going to smash these goblins so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot, and cross out some ammo, wand charges and a healing potion".
In both cases we play out the combat encounter (instead of reducing it to the abovementioned sentences) if and only if it's fun to do, not because we want to accurately track expended resources. Groups who don't enjoy playing out encounters without a story impact shouldn't play them out in detail even if it'd be a hard encounter that costs resources. If your story, setting and group fits that, then it'd be appropriate to just say "while you're resting for the night, a bunch of wolves attack your camp. You defeat them, but it costs you resources X, Y and Z". And if your group enjoys playing out tactical combat, then they'll likely want to play out also scenarios where they have an advantage.
There are various games which do explicitly handle challenges as resource costs i.e. "spend X, or get consequences Y". In most of its forms, D&D isn't really one of these systems. It can be used like this, depending on the DM, but it intentionally has a lot of "heavyweight" combat mechanics designed to play out encounters in tactical detail, instead of resolving them as a resource metagame. After all, D&D early origins come from the miniature wargaming community, and it's reflected even in 5e rules.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Well, thats kind of what I'm asking. Is it actually fun to spend valuable table time on an easy-win? From my own experience, I've questioned the use of such time as player.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
you assume that "people like to play combat encounters". That might be true for you and/or your table, but for example not for me or my table. I like encounters that add something to the story, and I also like the occasional dungeon - but I absolutely don't like "random encounters" that only exist to use up resources, unless there's an interesting aspect about them - such as a new, mysterious creature type, or fancy loot. "Getting to play out an encounter" isn't enough of a reward for me to enjoy an encounter.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch I think it's almost getting to subjective at that point? If people get to feel 'epic' or 'cool', for them it's worth the time. I know in games I've played and dm'd it's been something discussed at session 0.
$endgroup$
– akozi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@akozi It is subjective, but that's okay if it's backed by table experience.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
I can attest to the example given: a combat encounter that (in another system) literally was “Oh, we're just going to smash these [enemies] so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot” was distinctly un-fun, even for me who is not usually a centrally combat-motivated RPGer. My experience is that easy combats that are actually gamed out are much more fun.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
Because it's fun
The purpose of the game isn't to accumulate, track and expend resources, it's to enjoy the process. Combat encounters are a major part of the major (though not all!) RPG game system designs because many people like to play combat encounters. For example, one can think of D&D 4E as a foray towards 'tactical combat boardgame', which is an attraction for some groups and a detraction for others.
Challenges are not resource costs
There does need to be some feeling of a challenge and risk involved to improve involvement, but that's IMHO orthogonal to resource expenditure - there's no meaningful difference between "Oh, we're just going to smash these goblins so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot" and "Oh, we're just going to smash these goblins so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot, and cross out some ammo, wand charges and a healing potion".
In both cases we play out the combat encounter (instead of reducing it to the abovementioned sentences) if and only if it's fun to do, not because we want to accurately track expended resources. Groups who don't enjoy playing out encounters without a story impact shouldn't play them out in detail even if it'd be a hard encounter that costs resources. If your story, setting and group fits that, then it'd be appropriate to just say "while you're resting for the night, a bunch of wolves attack your camp. You defeat them, but it costs you resources X, Y and Z". And if your group enjoys playing out tactical combat, then they'll likely want to play out also scenarios where they have an advantage.
There are various games which do explicitly handle challenges as resource costs i.e. "spend X, or get consequences Y". In most of its forms, D&D isn't really one of these systems. It can be used like this, depending on the DM, but it intentionally has a lot of "heavyweight" combat mechanics designed to play out encounters in tactical detail, instead of resolving them as a resource metagame. After all, D&D early origins come from the miniature wargaming community, and it's reflected even in 5e rules.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Well, thats kind of what I'm asking. Is it actually fun to spend valuable table time on an easy-win? From my own experience, I've questioned the use of such time as player.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
you assume that "people like to play combat encounters". That might be true for you and/or your table, but for example not for me or my table. I like encounters that add something to the story, and I also like the occasional dungeon - but I absolutely don't like "random encounters" that only exist to use up resources, unless there's an interesting aspect about them - such as a new, mysterious creature type, or fancy loot. "Getting to play out an encounter" isn't enough of a reward for me to enjoy an encounter.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch I think it's almost getting to subjective at that point? If people get to feel 'epic' or 'cool', for them it's worth the time. I know in games I've played and dm'd it's been something discussed at session 0.
$endgroup$
– akozi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@akozi It is subjective, but that's okay if it's backed by table experience.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
I can attest to the example given: a combat encounter that (in another system) literally was “Oh, we're just going to smash these [enemies] so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot” was distinctly un-fun, even for me who is not usually a centrally combat-motivated RPGer. My experience is that easy combats that are actually gamed out are much more fun.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
Because it's fun
The purpose of the game isn't to accumulate, track and expend resources, it's to enjoy the process. Combat encounters are a major part of the major (though not all!) RPG game system designs because many people like to play combat encounters. For example, one can think of D&D 4E as a foray towards 'tactical combat boardgame', which is an attraction for some groups and a detraction for others.
Challenges are not resource costs
There does need to be some feeling of a challenge and risk involved to improve involvement, but that's IMHO orthogonal to resource expenditure - there's no meaningful difference between "Oh, we're just going to smash these goblins so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot" and "Oh, we're just going to smash these goblins so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot, and cross out some ammo, wand charges and a healing potion".
In both cases we play out the combat encounter (instead of reducing it to the abovementioned sentences) if and only if it's fun to do, not because we want to accurately track expended resources. Groups who don't enjoy playing out encounters without a story impact shouldn't play them out in detail even if it'd be a hard encounter that costs resources. If your story, setting and group fits that, then it'd be appropriate to just say "while you're resting for the night, a bunch of wolves attack your camp. You defeat them, but it costs you resources X, Y and Z". And if your group enjoys playing out tactical combat, then they'll likely want to play out also scenarios where they have an advantage.
There are various games which do explicitly handle challenges as resource costs i.e. "spend X, or get consequences Y". In most of its forms, D&D isn't really one of these systems. It can be used like this, depending on the DM, but it intentionally has a lot of "heavyweight" combat mechanics designed to play out encounters in tactical detail, instead of resolving them as a resource metagame. After all, D&D early origins come from the miniature wargaming community, and it's reflected even in 5e rules.
$endgroup$
Because it's fun
The purpose of the game isn't to accumulate, track and expend resources, it's to enjoy the process. Combat encounters are a major part of the major (though not all!) RPG game system designs because many people like to play combat encounters. For example, one can think of D&D 4E as a foray towards 'tactical combat boardgame', which is an attraction for some groups and a detraction for others.
Challenges are not resource costs
There does need to be some feeling of a challenge and risk involved to improve involvement, but that's IMHO orthogonal to resource expenditure - there's no meaningful difference between "Oh, we're just going to smash these goblins so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot" and "Oh, we're just going to smash these goblins so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot, and cross out some ammo, wand charges and a healing potion".
In both cases we play out the combat encounter (instead of reducing it to the abovementioned sentences) if and only if it's fun to do, not because we want to accurately track expended resources. Groups who don't enjoy playing out encounters without a story impact shouldn't play them out in detail even if it'd be a hard encounter that costs resources. If your story, setting and group fits that, then it'd be appropriate to just say "while you're resting for the night, a bunch of wolves attack your camp. You defeat them, but it costs you resources X, Y and Z". And if your group enjoys playing out tactical combat, then they'll likely want to play out also scenarios where they have an advantage.
There are various games which do explicitly handle challenges as resource costs i.e. "spend X, or get consequences Y". In most of its forms, D&D isn't really one of these systems. It can be used like this, depending on the DM, but it intentionally has a lot of "heavyweight" combat mechanics designed to play out encounters in tactical detail, instead of resolving them as a resource metagame. After all, D&D early origins come from the miniature wargaming community, and it's reflected even in 5e rules.
edited 8 mins ago
answered 2 hours ago
PeterisPeteris
5,11012028
5,11012028
1
$begingroup$
Well, thats kind of what I'm asking. Is it actually fun to spend valuable table time on an easy-win? From my own experience, I've questioned the use of such time as player.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
you assume that "people like to play combat encounters". That might be true for you and/or your table, but for example not for me or my table. I like encounters that add something to the story, and I also like the occasional dungeon - but I absolutely don't like "random encounters" that only exist to use up resources, unless there's an interesting aspect about them - such as a new, mysterious creature type, or fancy loot. "Getting to play out an encounter" isn't enough of a reward for me to enjoy an encounter.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch I think it's almost getting to subjective at that point? If people get to feel 'epic' or 'cool', for them it's worth the time. I know in games I've played and dm'd it's been something discussed at session 0.
$endgroup$
– akozi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@akozi It is subjective, but that's okay if it's backed by table experience.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
I can attest to the example given: a combat encounter that (in another system) literally was “Oh, we're just going to smash these [enemies] so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot” was distinctly un-fun, even for me who is not usually a centrally combat-motivated RPGer. My experience is that easy combats that are actually gamed out are much more fun.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
|
show 8 more comments
1
$begingroup$
Well, thats kind of what I'm asking. Is it actually fun to spend valuable table time on an easy-win? From my own experience, I've questioned the use of such time as player.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
you assume that "people like to play combat encounters". That might be true for you and/or your table, but for example not for me or my table. I like encounters that add something to the story, and I also like the occasional dungeon - but I absolutely don't like "random encounters" that only exist to use up resources, unless there's an interesting aspect about them - such as a new, mysterious creature type, or fancy loot. "Getting to play out an encounter" isn't enough of a reward for me to enjoy an encounter.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch I think it's almost getting to subjective at that point? If people get to feel 'epic' or 'cool', for them it's worth the time. I know in games I've played and dm'd it's been something discussed at session 0.
$endgroup$
– akozi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@akozi It is subjective, but that's okay if it's backed by table experience.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
I can attest to the example given: a combat encounter that (in another system) literally was “Oh, we're just going to smash these [enemies] so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot” was distinctly un-fun, even for me who is not usually a centrally combat-motivated RPGer. My experience is that easy combats that are actually gamed out are much more fun.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Well, thats kind of what I'm asking. Is it actually fun to spend valuable table time on an easy-win? From my own experience, I've questioned the use of such time as player.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Well, thats kind of what I'm asking. Is it actually fun to spend valuable table time on an easy-win? From my own experience, I've questioned the use of such time as player.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
2
2
$begingroup$
you assume that "people like to play combat encounters". That might be true for you and/or your table, but for example not for me or my table. I like encounters that add something to the story, and I also like the occasional dungeon - but I absolutely don't like "random encounters" that only exist to use up resources, unless there's an interesting aspect about them - such as a new, mysterious creature type, or fancy loot. "Getting to play out an encounter" isn't enough of a reward for me to enjoy an encounter.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
you assume that "people like to play combat encounters". That might be true for you and/or your table, but for example not for me or my table. I like encounters that add something to the story, and I also like the occasional dungeon - but I absolutely don't like "random encounters" that only exist to use up resources, unless there's an interesting aspect about them - such as a new, mysterious creature type, or fancy loot. "Getting to play out an encounter" isn't enough of a reward for me to enjoy an encounter.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch I think it's almost getting to subjective at that point? If people get to feel 'epic' or 'cool', for them it's worth the time. I know in games I've played and dm'd it's been something discussed at session 0.
$endgroup$
– akozi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch I think it's almost getting to subjective at that point? If people get to feel 'epic' or 'cool', for them it's worth the time. I know in games I've played and dm'd it's been something discussed at session 0.
$endgroup$
– akozi
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@akozi It is subjective, but that's okay if it's backed by table experience.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@akozi It is subjective, but that's okay if it's backed by table experience.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
3
3
$begingroup$
I can attest to the example given: a combat encounter that (in another system) literally was “Oh, we're just going to smash these [enemies] so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot” was distinctly un-fun, even for me who is not usually a centrally combat-motivated RPGer. My experience is that easy combats that are actually gamed out are much more fun.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
I can attest to the example given: a combat encounter that (in another system) literally was “Oh, we're just going to smash these [enemies] so it doesn't matter how we proceed, let's just skip rolling the dice and write down the xp and loot” was distinctly un-fun, even for me who is not usually a centrally combat-motivated RPGer. My experience is that easy combats that are actually gamed out are much more fun.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
Variety breathes life in the game.
D&D is not a video game where the difficulty of an encounter is carefully tailored to always be Medium/Hard for the current group of players.
Instead, I have found that a variety of difficulties makes encounters more fun.
Just like various foes should react differently, various foes should present different difficulty levels. For example it is unrealistic that the cities gatekeepers, paid a couple coppers a day, be a real challenge to a high-level party... but it may not prevent said gatekeepers from challenging the party nonetheless.
Varying difficulty levels make the World take a life on its own, rather than strictly revolving around the party. It gives a more "sandbox" feel.
Variety fosters Role-Play.
Similarly, variety limits meta-gaming and fosters role-play.
If the players are used to always encountering a certain level of difficulty, they will adapt their gameplay: they know that an encounter requires a certain amount of buffing, and the expenditure of a certain amount of resources (spells, potions, etc...), so as combat starts the Cleric casts a protective spell... "as usual".
Instead, when the difficulty of encounters swings wildly between Easy and Deadly (or Impossible), and cannot be "meta-gamed", then the players have to proceed cautiously, and have to use their characters' knowledge and interactions to suss out how strong the opposition really is.
Personally I find it more realistic.
I would note that this does not mean that the combat should become boring and sluggish. The DM is in position to shorten the fight by having the opposition flee or throw down their weapons when they realize how hopeless the fight is... such as after just witnessed one of their allies getting cleaved in two in a single swing by the Big Bad Fighter.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Not forcing completion for the sake of completion is a very interesting method to give them that "powerful" feeling without wasting table time.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Variety breathes life in the game.
D&D is not a video game where the difficulty of an encounter is carefully tailored to always be Medium/Hard for the current group of players.
Instead, I have found that a variety of difficulties makes encounters more fun.
Just like various foes should react differently, various foes should present different difficulty levels. For example it is unrealistic that the cities gatekeepers, paid a couple coppers a day, be a real challenge to a high-level party... but it may not prevent said gatekeepers from challenging the party nonetheless.
Varying difficulty levels make the World take a life on its own, rather than strictly revolving around the party. It gives a more "sandbox" feel.
Variety fosters Role-Play.
Similarly, variety limits meta-gaming and fosters role-play.
If the players are used to always encountering a certain level of difficulty, they will adapt their gameplay: they know that an encounter requires a certain amount of buffing, and the expenditure of a certain amount of resources (spells, potions, etc...), so as combat starts the Cleric casts a protective spell... "as usual".
Instead, when the difficulty of encounters swings wildly between Easy and Deadly (or Impossible), and cannot be "meta-gamed", then the players have to proceed cautiously, and have to use their characters' knowledge and interactions to suss out how strong the opposition really is.
Personally I find it more realistic.
I would note that this does not mean that the combat should become boring and sluggish. The DM is in position to shorten the fight by having the opposition flee or throw down their weapons when they realize how hopeless the fight is... such as after just witnessed one of their allies getting cleaved in two in a single swing by the Big Bad Fighter.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Not forcing completion for the sake of completion is a very interesting method to give them that "powerful" feeling without wasting table time.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Variety breathes life in the game.
D&D is not a video game where the difficulty of an encounter is carefully tailored to always be Medium/Hard for the current group of players.
Instead, I have found that a variety of difficulties makes encounters more fun.
Just like various foes should react differently, various foes should present different difficulty levels. For example it is unrealistic that the cities gatekeepers, paid a couple coppers a day, be a real challenge to a high-level party... but it may not prevent said gatekeepers from challenging the party nonetheless.
Varying difficulty levels make the World take a life on its own, rather than strictly revolving around the party. It gives a more "sandbox" feel.
Variety fosters Role-Play.
Similarly, variety limits meta-gaming and fosters role-play.
If the players are used to always encountering a certain level of difficulty, they will adapt their gameplay: they know that an encounter requires a certain amount of buffing, and the expenditure of a certain amount of resources (spells, potions, etc...), so as combat starts the Cleric casts a protective spell... "as usual".
Instead, when the difficulty of encounters swings wildly between Easy and Deadly (or Impossible), and cannot be "meta-gamed", then the players have to proceed cautiously, and have to use their characters' knowledge and interactions to suss out how strong the opposition really is.
Personally I find it more realistic.
I would note that this does not mean that the combat should become boring and sluggish. The DM is in position to shorten the fight by having the opposition flee or throw down their weapons when they realize how hopeless the fight is... such as after just witnessed one of their allies getting cleaved in two in a single swing by the Big Bad Fighter.
$endgroup$
Variety breathes life in the game.
D&D is not a video game where the difficulty of an encounter is carefully tailored to always be Medium/Hard for the current group of players.
Instead, I have found that a variety of difficulties makes encounters more fun.
Just like various foes should react differently, various foes should present different difficulty levels. For example it is unrealistic that the cities gatekeepers, paid a couple coppers a day, be a real challenge to a high-level party... but it may not prevent said gatekeepers from challenging the party nonetheless.
Varying difficulty levels make the World take a life on its own, rather than strictly revolving around the party. It gives a more "sandbox" feel.
Variety fosters Role-Play.
Similarly, variety limits meta-gaming and fosters role-play.
If the players are used to always encountering a certain level of difficulty, they will adapt their gameplay: they know that an encounter requires a certain amount of buffing, and the expenditure of a certain amount of resources (spells, potions, etc...), so as combat starts the Cleric casts a protective spell... "as usual".
Instead, when the difficulty of encounters swings wildly between Easy and Deadly (or Impossible), and cannot be "meta-gamed", then the players have to proceed cautiously, and have to use their characters' knowledge and interactions to suss out how strong the opposition really is.
Personally I find it more realistic.
I would note that this does not mean that the combat should become boring and sluggish. The DM is in position to shorten the fight by having the opposition flee or throw down their weapons when they realize how hopeless the fight is... such as after just witnessed one of their allies getting cleaved in two in a single swing by the Big Bad Fighter.
answered 1 hour ago
Matthieu M.Matthieu M.
4,91131932
4,91131932
1
$begingroup$
Not forcing completion for the sake of completion is a very interesting method to give them that "powerful" feeling without wasting table time.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Not forcing completion for the sake of completion is a very interesting method to give them that "powerful" feeling without wasting table time.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Not forcing completion for the sake of completion is a very interesting method to give them that "powerful" feeling without wasting table time.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Not forcing completion for the sake of completion is a very interesting method to give them that "powerful" feeling without wasting table time.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are two reasons I use those now and again
Sometimes, the players need to feel successful.
I use this particularly with new players, and with younger players when I deem that a tougher encounter might go badly.
Sometimes, the party's foes make a mistake.
Just as the PCs can now and again underestimate how hard an encounter or monster is, the reverse is true. This is more of a narrative based approach, and works either in an ambush scenario (where the bandits really don't know who they are messing with) or after a social situation when the reaction by the party's opponent leads to blows (due to ego, anger, surprise reveal of pet peeve, or something else on the part of the opponent/leader). In a case like this, social to combat transition, if there are a goodly sized number of opponents, some of them fleeing or surrendering if the party begins to beat the stuffing out of them is a common result. That leads to a non combat encounter/situation: what do we do with these prisoners?
A last reason that I no longer use with our current group: to get
the party used to not expending resources as a reflex.
A group of old timers had developed the habit of going nova early since I tended to run 3 or 4 encounters at the hard - deadly level. (I tend to backwards budget daily XP budget to make encounter bundles). On the fourth encounter of that day, I went 'easy to medium' since they had no spell slots left, but there were still plenty of enemies in the area. The party won handily except that one character had to make a death save due to getting hit by a crit. The crit / damage spike phenomenon is part of the swinginess of the d20 system. (I don't do this anymore since there is a limit to how many new tricks old dogs will learn.)
@Matthieu'sM's point on variety making for a fun game experience is something I've seen at tables from both sides of the screen.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Did the players feel 'good' about those encounters? Or did they feel that they were too easy and just a time waste?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch In which case are you asking?
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Probably more with the more experienced player - but in general, do they like combat encounters that they breeze through because they were made to breeze through (and not just due to their smart tactics/good rolls.)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch Depends on the group; now and again the case two PWNage event leads to a serial encounter with prisoners that they then deal with in a non combat way. Matthieu's point on 'variety adding to the gaming experience' is spot on here.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are two reasons I use those now and again
Sometimes, the players need to feel successful.
I use this particularly with new players, and with younger players when I deem that a tougher encounter might go badly.
Sometimes, the party's foes make a mistake.
Just as the PCs can now and again underestimate how hard an encounter or monster is, the reverse is true. This is more of a narrative based approach, and works either in an ambush scenario (where the bandits really don't know who they are messing with) or after a social situation when the reaction by the party's opponent leads to blows (due to ego, anger, surprise reveal of pet peeve, or something else on the part of the opponent/leader). In a case like this, social to combat transition, if there are a goodly sized number of opponents, some of them fleeing or surrendering if the party begins to beat the stuffing out of them is a common result. That leads to a non combat encounter/situation: what do we do with these prisoners?
A last reason that I no longer use with our current group: to get
the party used to not expending resources as a reflex.
A group of old timers had developed the habit of going nova early since I tended to run 3 or 4 encounters at the hard - deadly level. (I tend to backwards budget daily XP budget to make encounter bundles). On the fourth encounter of that day, I went 'easy to medium' since they had no spell slots left, but there were still plenty of enemies in the area. The party won handily except that one character had to make a death save due to getting hit by a crit. The crit / damage spike phenomenon is part of the swinginess of the d20 system. (I don't do this anymore since there is a limit to how many new tricks old dogs will learn.)
@Matthieu'sM's point on variety making for a fun game experience is something I've seen at tables from both sides of the screen.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Did the players feel 'good' about those encounters? Or did they feel that they were too easy and just a time waste?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch In which case are you asking?
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Probably more with the more experienced player - but in general, do they like combat encounters that they breeze through because they were made to breeze through (and not just due to their smart tactics/good rolls.)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch Depends on the group; now and again the case two PWNage event leads to a serial encounter with prisoners that they then deal with in a non combat way. Matthieu's point on 'variety adding to the gaming experience' is spot on here.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are two reasons I use those now and again
Sometimes, the players need to feel successful.
I use this particularly with new players, and with younger players when I deem that a tougher encounter might go badly.
Sometimes, the party's foes make a mistake.
Just as the PCs can now and again underestimate how hard an encounter or monster is, the reverse is true. This is more of a narrative based approach, and works either in an ambush scenario (where the bandits really don't know who they are messing with) or after a social situation when the reaction by the party's opponent leads to blows (due to ego, anger, surprise reveal of pet peeve, or something else on the part of the opponent/leader). In a case like this, social to combat transition, if there are a goodly sized number of opponents, some of them fleeing or surrendering if the party begins to beat the stuffing out of them is a common result. That leads to a non combat encounter/situation: what do we do with these prisoners?
A last reason that I no longer use with our current group: to get
the party used to not expending resources as a reflex.
A group of old timers had developed the habit of going nova early since I tended to run 3 or 4 encounters at the hard - deadly level. (I tend to backwards budget daily XP budget to make encounter bundles). On the fourth encounter of that day, I went 'easy to medium' since they had no spell slots left, but there were still plenty of enemies in the area. The party won handily except that one character had to make a death save due to getting hit by a crit. The crit / damage spike phenomenon is part of the swinginess of the d20 system. (I don't do this anymore since there is a limit to how many new tricks old dogs will learn.)
@Matthieu'sM's point on variety making for a fun game experience is something I've seen at tables from both sides of the screen.
$endgroup$
There are two reasons I use those now and again
Sometimes, the players need to feel successful.
I use this particularly with new players, and with younger players when I deem that a tougher encounter might go badly.
Sometimes, the party's foes make a mistake.
Just as the PCs can now and again underestimate how hard an encounter or monster is, the reverse is true. This is more of a narrative based approach, and works either in an ambush scenario (where the bandits really don't know who they are messing with) or after a social situation when the reaction by the party's opponent leads to blows (due to ego, anger, surprise reveal of pet peeve, or something else on the part of the opponent/leader). In a case like this, social to combat transition, if there are a goodly sized number of opponents, some of them fleeing or surrendering if the party begins to beat the stuffing out of them is a common result. That leads to a non combat encounter/situation: what do we do with these prisoners?
A last reason that I no longer use with our current group: to get
the party used to not expending resources as a reflex.
A group of old timers had developed the habit of going nova early since I tended to run 3 or 4 encounters at the hard - deadly level. (I tend to backwards budget daily XP budget to make encounter bundles). On the fourth encounter of that day, I went 'easy to medium' since they had no spell slots left, but there were still plenty of enemies in the area. The party won handily except that one character had to make a death save due to getting hit by a crit. The crit / damage spike phenomenon is part of the swinginess of the d20 system. (I don't do this anymore since there is a limit to how many new tricks old dogs will learn.)
@Matthieu'sM's point on variety making for a fun game experience is something I've seen at tables from both sides of the screen.
edited 57 mins ago
answered 3 hours ago
KorvinStarmastKorvinStarmast
80.2k19251433
80.2k19251433
$begingroup$
Did the players feel 'good' about those encounters? Or did they feel that they were too easy and just a time waste?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch In which case are you asking?
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Probably more with the more experienced player - but in general, do they like combat encounters that they breeze through because they were made to breeze through (and not just due to their smart tactics/good rolls.)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch Depends on the group; now and again the case two PWNage event leads to a serial encounter with prisoners that they then deal with in a non combat way. Matthieu's point on 'variety adding to the gaming experience' is spot on here.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Did the players feel 'good' about those encounters? Or did they feel that they were too easy and just a time waste?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch In which case are you asking?
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Probably more with the more experienced player - but in general, do they like combat encounters that they breeze through because they were made to breeze through (and not just due to their smart tactics/good rolls.)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch Depends on the group; now and again the case two PWNage event leads to a serial encounter with prisoners that they then deal with in a non combat way. Matthieu's point on 'variety adding to the gaming experience' is spot on here.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Did the players feel 'good' about those encounters? Or did they feel that they were too easy and just a time waste?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Did the players feel 'good' about those encounters? Or did they feel that they were too easy and just a time waste?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch In which case are you asking?
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch In which case are you asking?
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Probably more with the more experienced player - but in general, do they like combat encounters that they breeze through because they were made to breeze through (and not just due to their smart tactics/good rolls.)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Probably more with the more experienced player - but in general, do they like combat encounters that they breeze through because they were made to breeze through (and not just due to their smart tactics/good rolls.)
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch Depends on the group; now and again the case two PWNage event leads to a serial encounter with prisoners that they then deal with in a non combat way. Matthieu's point on 'variety adding to the gaming experience' is spot on here.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Depends on the group; now and again the case two PWNage event leads to a serial encounter with prisoners that they then deal with in a non combat way. Matthieu's point on 'variety adding to the gaming experience' is spot on here.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have used easy encounters several times in my campaign, for two reasons:
- They've made a right decision or succeeded a roll, usually sneak or deception to lure some enemies away.
- I have a player that likes combat.
An example is when they were tracking bandits to their hideout. They succeeded perception roll to find a hidden passage right into the abandoned castle, where there were only 1-2 guards, as opposed to 4-5 guards on the main gate.
The easy encounter is given to give a sense of accomplishment for choosing the right option or succeeding an important roll (and make sure later they know what would happened if they choose the wrong option or failed the roll).
I also still put the encounter there, although I can easily narrate they beat the guards easily, to give at least one encounter per session for this player. He is happy with this arrangement, and the others too (usually the encounter only lasted 10 minutes).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have used easy encounters several times in my campaign, for two reasons:
- They've made a right decision or succeeded a roll, usually sneak or deception to lure some enemies away.
- I have a player that likes combat.
An example is when they were tracking bandits to their hideout. They succeeded perception roll to find a hidden passage right into the abandoned castle, where there were only 1-2 guards, as opposed to 4-5 guards on the main gate.
The easy encounter is given to give a sense of accomplishment for choosing the right option or succeeding an important roll (and make sure later they know what would happened if they choose the wrong option or failed the roll).
I also still put the encounter there, although I can easily narrate they beat the guards easily, to give at least one encounter per session for this player. He is happy with this arrangement, and the others too (usually the encounter only lasted 10 minutes).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have used easy encounters several times in my campaign, for two reasons:
- They've made a right decision or succeeded a roll, usually sneak or deception to lure some enemies away.
- I have a player that likes combat.
An example is when they were tracking bandits to their hideout. They succeeded perception roll to find a hidden passage right into the abandoned castle, where there were only 1-2 guards, as opposed to 4-5 guards on the main gate.
The easy encounter is given to give a sense of accomplishment for choosing the right option or succeeding an important roll (and make sure later they know what would happened if they choose the wrong option or failed the roll).
I also still put the encounter there, although I can easily narrate they beat the guards easily, to give at least one encounter per session for this player. He is happy with this arrangement, and the others too (usually the encounter only lasted 10 minutes).
$endgroup$
I have used easy encounters several times in my campaign, for two reasons:
- They've made a right decision or succeeded a roll, usually sneak or deception to lure some enemies away.
- I have a player that likes combat.
An example is when they were tracking bandits to their hideout. They succeeded perception roll to find a hidden passage right into the abandoned castle, where there were only 1-2 guards, as opposed to 4-5 guards on the main gate.
The easy encounter is given to give a sense of accomplishment for choosing the right option or succeeding an important roll (and make sure later they know what would happened if they choose the wrong option or failed the roll).
I also still put the encounter there, although I can easily narrate they beat the guards easily, to give at least one encounter per session for this player. He is happy with this arrangement, and the others too (usually the encounter only lasted 10 minutes).
answered 2 hours ago
VylixVylix
12.6k253149
12.6k253149
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To reduce player paranoia
If players expect each combat encounter to be deadly or at least to consume a significant amount of resources they will approach the game very carefully. That means more of the game time is spent on planning instead of action.
In extreme cases it can lead to players anticipating to encounter danger even when there isn't any or trying to avoid combat at any cost. This is similar to how springing deadly traps upon players will make them check every nook and cranny before proceeding and can significantly slow down the game.
By occasionally introducing an encounter that can be won without any planning, complicated tactics or significant losses you can encourage players to be bolder and take more risks in the future. It could also speed up gameplay and even make player actions more varied if they don't feel pressured to make the most optimal choice every turn.
While watching players overcome the odds against a difficult encounter is undoubtedly fun, sometimes it is more fun to watch them charge recklessly into the fray, which they won't do if they know it will end up badly.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To reduce player paranoia
If players expect each combat encounter to be deadly or at least to consume a significant amount of resources they will approach the game very carefully. That means more of the game time is spent on planning instead of action.
In extreme cases it can lead to players anticipating to encounter danger even when there isn't any or trying to avoid combat at any cost. This is similar to how springing deadly traps upon players will make them check every nook and cranny before proceeding and can significantly slow down the game.
By occasionally introducing an encounter that can be won without any planning, complicated tactics or significant losses you can encourage players to be bolder and take more risks in the future. It could also speed up gameplay and even make player actions more varied if they don't feel pressured to make the most optimal choice every turn.
While watching players overcome the odds against a difficult encounter is undoubtedly fun, sometimes it is more fun to watch them charge recklessly into the fray, which they won't do if they know it will end up badly.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To reduce player paranoia
If players expect each combat encounter to be deadly or at least to consume a significant amount of resources they will approach the game very carefully. That means more of the game time is spent on planning instead of action.
In extreme cases it can lead to players anticipating to encounter danger even when there isn't any or trying to avoid combat at any cost. This is similar to how springing deadly traps upon players will make them check every nook and cranny before proceeding and can significantly slow down the game.
By occasionally introducing an encounter that can be won without any planning, complicated tactics or significant losses you can encourage players to be bolder and take more risks in the future. It could also speed up gameplay and even make player actions more varied if they don't feel pressured to make the most optimal choice every turn.
While watching players overcome the odds against a difficult encounter is undoubtedly fun, sometimes it is more fun to watch them charge recklessly into the fray, which they won't do if they know it will end up badly.
New contributor
$endgroup$
To reduce player paranoia
If players expect each combat encounter to be deadly or at least to consume a significant amount of resources they will approach the game very carefully. That means more of the game time is spent on planning instead of action.
In extreme cases it can lead to players anticipating to encounter danger even when there isn't any or trying to avoid combat at any cost. This is similar to how springing deadly traps upon players will make them check every nook and cranny before proceeding and can significantly slow down the game.
By occasionally introducing an encounter that can be won without any planning, complicated tactics or significant losses you can encourage players to be bolder and take more risks in the future. It could also speed up gameplay and even make player actions more varied if they don't feel pressured to make the most optimal choice every turn.
While watching players overcome the odds against a difficult encounter is undoubtedly fun, sometimes it is more fun to watch them charge recklessly into the fray, which they won't do if they know it will end up badly.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 1 hour ago
SilentAxeSilentAxe
955
955
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Some people like it.
Take a look at page 6 of your DMG. (It's a fantastic resource.) One of the player types there just wants to be awesome in combat. They may or may not enjoy tactical challenge. They do enjoy the idea of charging into a horde of orcs, and hitting one orc so hard that his head comes flying off and strikes another orc, killing both of them on the spot. This is the part of the game that that player really gets into. Now, if you're a player who's really into tactical optimization and balancing resources and so forth, there isn't going to be a lot of appeal, but if you're that kind of player, then Easy encounters aren't really for you. They're for the kind of player that likes to be reminded from time to time that, as a sixth-level barbarian, they really are a raging badass that most people would have reason to be rightly terrified of.
It's a refreshing break
Shakespeare had humorous scenes even in the middle of his tragedies. You can, too. Giving the players an opportunity to cut loose on some hapless foes who aren't a meaningful threat and maybe show off a bit can offer a mental break in the middle of an otherwise grindingly difficult dungeon. That both gives them a bit of mental recovery time and means that when they jump back into the trenches, it hits them fresh again. Both effects can be worthwhile for crafting the experience.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Some people like it.
Take a look at page 6 of your DMG. (It's a fantastic resource.) One of the player types there just wants to be awesome in combat. They may or may not enjoy tactical challenge. They do enjoy the idea of charging into a horde of orcs, and hitting one orc so hard that his head comes flying off and strikes another orc, killing both of them on the spot. This is the part of the game that that player really gets into. Now, if you're a player who's really into tactical optimization and balancing resources and so forth, there isn't going to be a lot of appeal, but if you're that kind of player, then Easy encounters aren't really for you. They're for the kind of player that likes to be reminded from time to time that, as a sixth-level barbarian, they really are a raging badass that most people would have reason to be rightly terrified of.
It's a refreshing break
Shakespeare had humorous scenes even in the middle of his tragedies. You can, too. Giving the players an opportunity to cut loose on some hapless foes who aren't a meaningful threat and maybe show off a bit can offer a mental break in the middle of an otherwise grindingly difficult dungeon. That both gives them a bit of mental recovery time and means that when they jump back into the trenches, it hits them fresh again. Both effects can be worthwhile for crafting the experience.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Some people like it.
Take a look at page 6 of your DMG. (It's a fantastic resource.) One of the player types there just wants to be awesome in combat. They may or may not enjoy tactical challenge. They do enjoy the idea of charging into a horde of orcs, and hitting one orc so hard that his head comes flying off and strikes another orc, killing both of them on the spot. This is the part of the game that that player really gets into. Now, if you're a player who's really into tactical optimization and balancing resources and so forth, there isn't going to be a lot of appeal, but if you're that kind of player, then Easy encounters aren't really for you. They're for the kind of player that likes to be reminded from time to time that, as a sixth-level barbarian, they really are a raging badass that most people would have reason to be rightly terrified of.
It's a refreshing break
Shakespeare had humorous scenes even in the middle of his tragedies. You can, too. Giving the players an opportunity to cut loose on some hapless foes who aren't a meaningful threat and maybe show off a bit can offer a mental break in the middle of an otherwise grindingly difficult dungeon. That both gives them a bit of mental recovery time and means that when they jump back into the trenches, it hits them fresh again. Both effects can be worthwhile for crafting the experience.
$endgroup$
Some people like it.
Take a look at page 6 of your DMG. (It's a fantastic resource.) One of the player types there just wants to be awesome in combat. They may or may not enjoy tactical challenge. They do enjoy the idea of charging into a horde of orcs, and hitting one orc so hard that his head comes flying off and strikes another orc, killing both of them on the spot. This is the part of the game that that player really gets into. Now, if you're a player who's really into tactical optimization and balancing resources and so forth, there isn't going to be a lot of appeal, but if you're that kind of player, then Easy encounters aren't really for you. They're for the kind of player that likes to be reminded from time to time that, as a sixth-level barbarian, they really are a raging badass that most people would have reason to be rightly terrified of.
It's a refreshing break
Shakespeare had humorous scenes even in the middle of his tragedies. You can, too. Giving the players an opportunity to cut loose on some hapless foes who aren't a meaningful threat and maybe show off a bit can offer a mental break in the middle of an otherwise grindingly difficult dungeon. That both gives them a bit of mental recovery time and means that when they jump back into the trenches, it hits them fresh again. Both effects can be worthwhile for crafting the experience.
answered 1 hour ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
9,95312455
9,95312455
add a comment |
add a comment |
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1
$begingroup$
I feel the same. Apparently, 5e is balanced for 2 short rests and 6-8 encounters per adventuring day. But seriously, who actually has that much time, or even enjoys that many (mostly repetitive & boring) encounters (except for in dungeons)?
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster Yeah, that's my big concern. I tend to run 2-3 deadly combat encounters per day and that works from a resource management perspective, but it also makes combat...deadly.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
All my combat encounters are deadly, like you say, but main objective is to create incentive for combat avoidance, enhance roleplay and storytelling instead of board-gaming combat.
$endgroup$
– adonies
21 mins ago
$begingroup$
@adonies I think you may be trying to post an answer as a comment - but it's not clear what you're really trying to say. I think if you remove the comment and post it as a more fleshed out answer, it'll be helpful.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
20 mins ago
$begingroup$
I just saw this on HNQ, so I'm not going to touch answering as my DnD experience is pretty limited. But wouldn't it be a bit strange if you went on an adventure, continuously got stronger, and found that every single time you got involved in combat, the enemies were also getting stronger?
$endgroup$
– JMac
4 mins ago